Found this in my notebook. Wish I had noted the source. True none the less.

" No matter what, you will never get a genuine psychopath to say 'sorry' directly to the person they damaged, ever. They will go to absolutely extraordinary lengths to not give an apology. They are hard-wired not to do it. They literally can't issue an apology. You might get. "sorry you are upset" or "sorry you are feeling this way." -these are not apologies. These diversions are putting the problem back onto you.

The reason for this is the psychopath's persona-switching. The present version of the psychopath is not accountable for the current persona. It's not capable of saying sorry, as the old version of the psychopath is the one is (technically, at the very most) responsible and not the one presently inside the psychopath whom you are looking for an apology, remorse, understanding, culpability from. Will never, ever happen. Never. You are asking for a shark to go vegetarian and expecting it. Don't waste your energy trying - move on with you life and be glad they are out of it forever."

Amen, six years of destructive behavior, never one apology, ever.

In 21 years of marriage, my wife has apologized to me one time.

Now, when we dated and I was being loved bombed, she often apologized to me for inappropriate behavior.

They also do what is called "minimizing ****" where since in there eyes it happened long ago so therefore it shouldn't matter...

Sorry would mean being accountable!

Simple!

Or just that they can never be wrong.

They generally do not allow themselves sorrow....like Sgt Schultz " I feel nothing". What you feel is your weakness in their mind and they view it as weak. You can force some to feel for a while but it dissipates rapidly. Is it worth it? Maybe if you are NPD.

Otherwise it is like herding cats....

Man, we've all lived this one, unfortunately. It's understandable why they can appear to have all of these emotions such as compassion, empathy, sorrow, regret, loving and caring attitudes toward us, our children, etc... All of these things they have carefully studied and observed in others. They are skilled mimics during the love bombing phase, (later of course the mask comes off). We think we've hit the jackpot! But of course underneath it all they lack any real understanding of genuine emotions as they are devoid of them internally.

So if you have crafted the perfect persona to project, then logically how could that person be at fault for anything? It doesn't square up with anything they know, or think they know. They are after all superior to all those around them and know they can manipulate us at any time using heartless and callus methods since they are not constrained by emotions.

So they naturally are convinced that anything wrong must have been brought about by you, hence they project all wrongs away from themselves. "It's all your fault". They simply don't do accountability, ever.

Classic narcissist apology,:

"I'm sorry that my interactions with you were so misunderstood by you that it caused you to feel hurt."

Amazing! My ex actually used these words when "apologizing" to me. So it was my fault that I felt hurt over her own cruel actions. You can't make this stuff up.

"I'm sorry that my interactions with you were so misunderstood by you that it caused you to feel hurt."

But this is the sort of expression of regret that WE might offer to the Narcissist. They misinterpret your every word and deed, and then get upset that you could be so nasty.

The difference is that they were not misinterpreted. They meant to be nasty. We were misinterpreted, and didn't mean to be nasty.

**** close Beenthere. There are a few machinations in their repertoire. Some you can strip the mask off and they break. Others just rage. You strip the mask off one you can and you get time with normal but they always return to their base. Had a lot of time with mine that was actually perfect but outside stresses would take over and the demon would speak. Dam that killed me. The whipsaw action tore me to bits. Others rage all the time and rage harder when you call them on it. Which is crazier? Idnk. I think the heavily cycling one beacause they give you a false hope......something to cling to.

They can mimic anything they want but when you actually get your nose under their tent you have a supervolcano about to blow.

I did not want to he her "handler".....I wanted a partner. Maybe there are no partners......only a lead and a follower.

I think you're on to something there CHUMP. I agree there is only lead and follow. These women are like all women, they want to be led. But it would take superman to lead them as stubborn as they are. You made the analogy of the mule before that was dead on. The problem with them is if you let them up for one minute or drop your guard, its on like Donkey Kong!

Their constant $h!t testing is exhausting. When they have worn you out that is when they reel you in, flop you on the deck and club your brains out. Then they heave your tattered carcass over the side and fish for another one. There isn't a man alive that can outlast them, but that doesn't keep them from trying

Chump and Soldier, I don't think 100% of women are like this, but most of them are. I dated some really good women in my life. Independent, yet caring, intelligent, but compassionate. They are a rare find.

I just returned from a business outing involving golf. I was paired up with a guy that has many of the same problems I have, but his wife is clearly not a narc. She agreed to do marriage therapy with him.
The problem is, most of her friends are divorced. They are painting a wonderful picture of the single life for a middle aged woman. I can't see that it would be a great thing. It is just interesting how outside influences can influence women so much and stir up so much unhappiness in them.

I think there is several issues at work at the same time on any woman.

Firstly, social influences. BTAP said about his friend’s wife who is being bombarded by the idea of “the greener grass” outside marriage. To understand this look at how humans love a pack! We’re social animals by DNA. Her friends want her to be the same as them... (In their divorced pack) they want her to fail as much as they did. If she divorces then that doesn’t make them so bad (right?) and the pack gains strength. Add media to the mix and it all looks fab – u – less to be single.

Add the feminist debate... (all men are bas-turds)

Now add the fundamentalist feminist debate (all bas-turds must be sh@t tested then despised ANYWAY) .

As the above pack mentality mentioned - they feel “obliged” to be feminist in varying degrees these days and usually led by an alpha female (usually the real nutter) - and depending on friends and workmates/work environment how fundamental us variable. Hopefully, if they have a true image of themselves they can distinguish between work image and real image and understand that the alpha nutter is a NUTTER and just not good for their real persona - you have a real chance. In a relationship - it’s the real (long term, sustainable) image that matters. Trouble is, if you have to think that hard - it sucks! In a good relationship this doesnt need to worked out by anyone.

That alone makes it tough, you almost need a degree in female psychology AND physiology just to get by.

Now, if you’re unlucky enough to get one of the PDI sufferers on top of all those...........(and remember the forecast is for increasing numbers). You have someone who believes utterly in her projection being so perfect, she simply won’t/can’t even countenance a mistake on its behalf and who has absolutely zero idea of accountability since it’s always someone else’s fault (even down to her projections fault...but it’s not “her’s” . That degree just took on new requirements and the “know when to run” aspects.

Each of the factors above result in a sh@tstorm of varying magnitude the difference is how bad a storm and is there anything we can do about it. A normal reasonable woman (yes oxymoron ) will debate the rights and wrongs of an action with you accept her part and decide on the best course for the relationship. The rest are just batsh@t crazy and won’t budge with almost religious zeal BUT expect you to always back down.

Maybe that’s why PDIs are so dangerous - they hide in plain sight. We think (we’re fooled) that we’re dealing with the usual stuff and don’t think it’s something all together more fundamentally dangerous until its staring us in the face and by then we’ve committed to much and it bloody hurts to get out.

JMHO

I think the idea of needing a degree in female psychology to cope with these crazy people is a bit optimistic . The way I see it, they simply use irrationality, inconsistency, self-contradiction, etc. as their chief weapon of surprise. Remember they are going for effects, not fairness or reasoned positions. And the effect has to be that you are wrong and they are right. Therefore, they get what they want.

So they aren't really crazy. They just have no scruples about irrational coercion. If you do have any allegiance to rationality, all resistance is useless. You've already lost.

Spoilt brats, basically.

The New Me, my marriage was great (due to the love bombing?) the first few years. Sure my wife had a bad temper and was insanely jealous, but other than that, she treated me like a king. So I overlooked the negative stuff.

Then, she started hanging around a total narc. A narc that told my wife that she relied too much on me. She would make negative comments that I didn't discipline my kids enough. She said I worked too much. She would tell my wife that she heard me on the phone with female coworkers and that I said sexually inappropriate things. She would belittle her husband and refuse him sex. Her husband was absolutely miserable. But, this woman acted like she was so cool. She totally misled my wife. Meanwhile, she was sexually coming onto me on the side. Which I told my wife about and she refused to believe.
This woman succeeded in driving a wedge between my wife and I that never was mended.

I curse the day that she ever came into my life.
I was out working everyday to take care of my family. While I was at work this woman undermined everything that I was working for.

They strip mine your soul.

However.....this does seem to work at times....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPnQyn8U40