Hi,..fellow abusees. I have posted on here a year or so ago, and to summarize my "Narc" did everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING to the LETTER..VERBATIM, of ALL of Jame's video, including following me around with her Mother, and then bringing men into MY bar which is 60 miles at least from her home, until she settled on one. She continued to bring and parade her new victim in front of me for months. One would be lead to believe since she owes me $1500, she would avoid possibly running into me, but she didn't. She would sit and STARE at me from about 10 feet away as if I couldn't see her- it was VERY strange. When I was with her, she would completely zone out into a type of catatonic state staring into oblivion and the ceiling etc..Anyways,after our final breakup and being on the outside looking in and observing her behavior with her new victim, ie. in addition to parading her unknowing victim in front of me, stepping outside to text on her phone while he thought she was in the bathroom, seeing him show up without her intermittently with a puzzled and bewildered look on his face..just as I had...a realization that should have been obvious to me occurred to me. She didn't invent herself and her behavior due to me as she had brainwashed me into believing. I am now recalling one incident after another..one disappearance after another etc., I now believe she paraded me in front of someone else, etc...Anyways, it has been 3 years and everything is returning to me and occupying my thoughts...all of the recollections that The videos by James provokes..I had lived a complete lie for 3 years and NOW..as I have said several times the recollections and the knowledge of what was REALLY going on in my life seems to have taken over my mind. When it ended, I didn't feel the same...as if she had stolen something from my being, and I have yet to conclude exactly what it was/is and I haven't been the same, nor had the gumption to pursue other women...she did a ****ed fine job of devaluing me to myself. It also bothers me to no end, not only what she did behind and in front of me, but that she didn't skip the slightest step in getting a new victim, etc...Why it bothers me, I do not know. Has anyone experienced the same, or have any ideas on how to overcome the recollections and the deep feelings of living a complete Lie?

IHehehe...they tear you down to build themselves up.......tend to cluster around old School social conventions such as mc clubs. But they redefine those as to their feeling of the moment. As I picked up on the sickness I got more respect and revulsion. You exist for them and dam you. If you do good you are garbage and if not then trash......the whole platform. Can twist instantly....

Watching a ex Narc from the outside is a fascinating exercise. You see the whole game (like watching from the grandstand instead of the pitch). You witness the whole game-play of the person you thought she was - and see that it was just that – a game they play, an Act with a defined script and a set of rules, plays and actions and a only one goal and one winner in her mind – her and her winning at any cost, (it’s murder ball for the heart) I’ve spent far too long wondering the same as you. How do you cope with that.

Knowledge is good – but we function on an emotional level – they don’t! Think of it as "my girl friend was from Mars" - literally.

I think of them now as something on the Discovery Channel – nice to watch (from a bloody long distance) and as something to avoid (like Polar Bears). I’ve met a few in work and socially, (narcs not Polar Bears - although just a dangerious) since “the enlightenment” and it’s really surreal to be able to predict their whole script, life and actions almost to the letter.

The emotional detachment will come - just keep telling yourself – you didn’t break it - you couldn’t fix it - she was a bloody vampire that had a good ‘ol suck on you.

One thing that helped me to understand “it wasn’t me” is my friends and family - I have a track record of good people in MY life – she didn’t, everyone bailed on her eventually - including me – that comforts me on those dark nights

60Panhead I know exactly what your are talking about. She took (you permitted) a fundamental and essential piece of what it is we use to define ourselves as men. That essential is called DIGNITY. It can be returned to you if you are able to be WILLING TO RISK. First step... get out there and catch yourself some normal women and companionship. Works for me.

Excellent post New. A cold comfort for me indeed... but I'll take that crow as it's served. And enjoy it!

That's it! That's the word,and what she took! Thanks Birdboy! It was my dignity and self respect! When I first met her, I stood my ground and raised the B.S. Flag whenever she got out of line. As James said in the videos, she 'Finetuned" herself to fit my needs, etc. She convinced me that she was a "Good girl", and now...looking back, and even when it occurred, I had NOTHING but contradictions to back her claim up. For example, at the time I met her, she had very recently got out of a 3 year relationship, and yet she had NO problem getting naked around me VERY quickly ( James pointed this out in video# 4..their ability to establish fast paced relationships)...I thought it was odd at the time, and now I know why..it was odd..period. I shutter to think..as all of the indications are/were there what she was REALLY doing...her being such a "Good girl" and all...I had evidence up the kazoo, but I..not being the intrusive type, let it all go. Anyways, I now know she is a complete tramp, and used "projection" constantly to convince me of what a straight and narrow woman she was- a COMPLETE LIE. She wore me down..and this is the key; INCRIMENTALLY...to the point of I didn't even dare question her. Moral of the story; NEVER..NEVER let one's antennae/guard down! Until one has been convinced to do so by anothers ACTIONS..NOT THEIR WORDS. Dignity...that is what she damaged..I MYSELF allowed her to do so..by not keeping my guard up and sticking to my guns. She REALLY is the definition of "Too good to be true"...I thought that very thing..and the fact is, she IS too good to be true..Everything was one big lie! Thanks for that elusive word Birdboy..I feel better

Panhead once we face our fears and confront our role in the whole play, that is the day of our LIBERATION and the return our our self worth, that is the day our dignity raises it's hand and say's.....Whoops! Hang tough my bro... it only gets better. We are good men caught up in extraordinarily bad circumstances. No communication no matter what is the key now. You will find that steely strength it imparts is truly empowering in the long haul. And I'm hauling ass! P.S. Check the "John Hughes Interesting" thread last posting of Aug. 13 for a better understanding about my feelings of ownership. It happens to the best of men. What we can say is that we took casualties but we did not "lose" the war. Paz, Bird

60, hey man what your going thru is normal, normal in this situation we have all been consumed by.. I have my ways to deal with things and sometimes I am wrong, however facing the pile of $hit your facing my only advise is to just be real with yourself face the facts bro.. and don't for a second think or sink yourself into a hole.. your right on schedule when you speak of not replacing that tramp with another woman.. Things are not your fault when it comes to her.. there is no cure for *****!!! and you cant fix a lie if you don't make it.. it will not be long before you truly see her for what she is.. when you embrace it you will come to love what you see when you see it.. you cant change her, she is what she is.. you might just be twisted up cuz she was good in the sack.. and not wanting to let go of it.. let it go my friend, she wasn't born with those skills, it took years and years of men to hone skills like that.. lmfao.. that was the hardest part of facing the fact we were only a tool.. well its all down hill from now on.. she is a dumpster.. no good pile of trash.. and im sure she lives up to the standard bar set my a dime store hooker... I got to a pleasant point of loving what my two ex "narc hole" stood for.. and now they are best friends.. they rock!! two very attractive ladies.. I figured I should share them with the public.. I have larned that they don't make enough dong to fill the void in them.. so just love her thru it.. smile and find true happiness in knowledge.. just be glad your turn on the ride is over.. and don't go back it only gets worse.. when they make you pay there price for coming back your fate is in there hands.. don't ever let you chin touch your chest 60.. if it does they own you.. stay here on this forum.. we are not wrong and she is real!! love ya bro stay up!!

Enough dong to fill the void!!! ...sheesh!

Boy your eyes are wide open-we all seek your level of peace-**** good post!

I have been thinking about this post for a couple of days. Actually it has been kind of noodling me. I know we could talk for days about what they do... the question for me is about what all this "do do" on her part "did" to me. Or more accurately described what I let the do do do to me. Hehehe!
But seriously, we know they have all these flucked up motions and manipulations going on in their pretzel quest for whatever it is they are seeking in their dysfunction. We know very simply these motions are not "normal" for healthy functional relationships. All that is pretty easy to wrap my head around and move forward and away from. In the end it's the troubling and long lasting "cognitive dissonance" feeling I have dealt with. How do we label it, how do we describe it. WTF is it! This hollow empty place.
I recently talked about dignity as a descriptor for this "thing" that worms around my brain and keeps me up some nights. This questioning in my life.
I know I conducted myself overall as a gentleman pirate. I treated the damsel quite well considering. I do not have an issue with my "motions" with the relationship. Therefore my "integrity" is intact.
The thing I have figured out for myself is indeed a matter of my personal dignity. Underneath all the "stuff" that went on with her what "I did" was... the very thing that hurt me most of all. I loved her wild mad to the exclusion of all the typical red flag "stuff". What I mean is I BELIEVED THAT SHE FELT THE SAME WAY. That is... until her "actions" proved otherwise. Hell the blind would see that was not a two way street .Not only was I blind...I WAS STUPID in love. I was the idiot.
That is where my dignity comes into the equation. It was not so much the lies... it was the loss of trust. The loss of innocence. The loss of loves intention. That sense of loves honor and cherishing became betrayal and revulsion. She permitted me to give of myself under false pretenses. We have to keep in mind that dignity is a very private matter of which no one other than the one dealing with it would ever know it is internally occurring. It is kind of nebulous in many ways and elusive to even articulate. Anyway that's where the betrayal hit me. I gave my love and was burned and burned badly and this hit me at a core personal value. My white knight was knocked off his horse and landed squarely on my ass. I made this decision to love her as a man and have only myself to make this right with now because she is gone and not interested in these matters. It is my "inside job" and no matter how much I point out "her" flaws... this one act is my one huge flaw and blunder in the relationship. This slammed me much harder than any of the "stuff" she pulled. I foolishly gave of myself to the unworthy. I did do that. I did that in opposition of my own core value. I went against myself in the end analysis. This hurt me more than anything she could ever do to me.
Now... what have I "learned" from this nightmare? I for one will never do that blunder again. Trust will be earned and not assumed. I am no longer blind. Eyes wide open. I am no longer innocent. I am not a child. I have to put those childish ways away now. I will go through my life from this time forward showing my own heart and my soul the care and love and honor I am willing to give to the worthy. I must forgive and then forget not only her but most of all I want to forgive myself as well. Could this be "dignity returning?

Good post BB

Nice post and true especially about forgiving ourselves. But I am the "idiot" lol! And don't you forget it.

Bingo again Bird! It was merely wasted time compared to other things that could have happened and have happened to better men👍 kudos to you for that reminder

Thanks guys For your responses and support over my "New Problem". The recollections and "replays" are fading daily. I must also say thanks for slapping me across the face with reality...a reality that We some times forget..I ALLOWED her to get away with her stunts. I ALLOWED her to BS me into not only lowering my antennae, but turning it completely off.Why is the BIG question..with a very simple and obvious answer that I'm certain many of you can relate to....Because I wanted to believe her...because she was too good to be true, and as things turned out, she was too good to be anywhere close to being true. I was dumbed down not only by her beauty, but what I wanted to be true...I BS'd myself the entire time, and by BSing myself, I gave excuses and rationalized away reality to myself. In other words, the woman that I wanted and was with only existed in MY mind.This entire experience has FINALLY ..and I do mean FINALLY MADE me to take a good,long hard look at myself. I have often told myself, and others, that she was an extreme example of the type of woman I typically encounter and get involved with. After I reviewed my past relationships...with the knowledge I now have( a big thanks to this site), I can honestly say..Hell to the no!I have been a victim of Narcs(and myself)a number of times! My best friend, a woman, has always told me that we will do things until we get "it"...until we learn the required lesson.What I can FINALLY take away from my experience is now I TRULY GET IT! No more will I BS myself...I will bump facts etc.against reality, and make no excuses or allowances for a narcs behavior. I will hit the trail.Odd, or crazy thing about it , is that when I met 'blondie", aside from thinking she's too good to be true, I actually thought that I was finally being rewarded for all the crap I put myself thru-- evidently I just REALLY hadn't gotten "it" yet. Believe you me, I do now. Now I must concentrate on what I allowed her to damage, and get back on my horse

Panhead.....I don't know how much you ride. Maybe a bit. I spent years not being in a club....then I joined one because I could. Learned it was a world of weak men following NPD men with no brotherhood whatsoever. Got out of that and fell into the psychbitch. Round two. Threepeat is not happening. Actions are louder than words......watch close and do not listen.

Panhead,

I think that’s the toughest lesson for us all to learn and it takes time and in my case many opportunities for it to sink in I guess. Like many I’m re-evaluating my life in a big way. At 54 I’m seeing the truth in my actions past and present and in the actions of others throughout my life as both sides of the same coin.

In a strange way I can see the PDIs side - driven by their warped needs and their needs only - the need to win their cause, (and ONLY their cause), at any and all cost – and bugger the collateral.

PDI thinking is NOT normal and that sort of warped thinking doesn’t compute with us (so called) normals.

Unlike a PDI we understand emotion, responsibility and accountability to ourselves and others and make our decisions in life and LOVE based on those criteria AND considering all parties. Their one sided thinking is an alien concept to us.

We are/were fooled by someone who can’t think like us, we were conned by someone who thinks not only is it OK to lie, deceive, destroy and manipulate in order to get their way – They’ve been trained to believe it’s compulsory and it’s compulsory to bare a grudge if you don’t fit her plans.


It’s hard to understand that we didn’t really matter a jot. We were/are chess porn’s to be sacrificed to insure this queen’s survival and needs are met – nothing more. Having been sacrificed – we’re given as much thought as the discarded chess piece... unless... we didn’t fulfil OUR role in their undisclosed master plan – then we will just continue be punished even after the break up. Remember, her master plan is undisclosed to us because we don’t matter enough to her to be told. You don't tell an ant your plan right?


We find that hard to grasp. Unlike the military which me and some here did sign up for; where the price we might be asked to pay and the risks involved in signing that dotted line are known and disclosed. In life – in love - we DO NOT sign up so that someone could repay our openness, our trust, our love, and kindness in such a selfish, deceitful, heartless and throwaway manner.

This is OUR life, love, happiness and futures that they sacrifice without a single thought. That you mattered so little to them takes some real understanding and it takes time to sink in.

As young men we may dance with the devil when we know it’s a devil and it’s just a dance, when we dance with a PDI - they hide the horns and tell us its love.

I've been fooled too many times by too many women including my mother. But something inside me told me it wasn't right - now i can name it. It's abuse! and I will no longer be abused.


Learning the lesson of recognising an abusive relationship for what it is – no matter how hot she is or how good the sex is or even when it’s parental, learning to say no, with dignity and understanding and kindness - standing up for our own self esteem, knowing we deserve to be treated better - being a man and accepting both our strengths and weaknesses is an important moment in life - my late father never had that moment - its late in coming for me, but it’s here now and better late than never.

Lost boys rescue broken girls. Pan where you doing my ex???

EWO, you ARE on top of your game...believe it!