We were on target guys.

http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2012/05/forgiveness.html?m=1

Chump,

I think this article speaks for a lot of people, but not me. Allow me to explain please.

This author I think is blending forgiveness with closure. We will never get closure because she is right, the narcissist will never repent of or admit the wrongs that they do to use. So no real closure is possible as in, "she came to me and admitted her offense and asked for my forgiveness". Not going to happen with a narc, no way.

However, forgiveness is a separate thing. In essence forgiveness is NOT about the offender, but rather the offended, us. So the offender can do whatever she wants, and probably will. But we as the offended or abused have a choice to make that is entirely independent of them. We must decide if we are going to allow the abuser the power in our lives to keep us in bondage. We must decide if we are going to carry our hurts internally and dwell on them, plot our revenge, seek to play the abusers game and manipulate them right back, etc,,,

Or, are we going to release the toxic baggage that they dumped on us, and leave the bitterness behind for our own sakes. Remember the abuser is not hurt in the slightest by our holding onto hurts. They in fact rather enjoy our pain. So why give them that joy, that power over u? Their narcissistic supply is enriched when they know they've altered our lives for the worse. And unforgiveness ALWAYS hurts the one harboring it, not the abuser, they could care less.

If you reread that article the author's bitterness is clearly expressed. I think this is a shame and is only hurting her. It won't keep her warm at night. On the other hand releasing it and investing in healthy people and being at peace will.

I say move on, kick the dust off your shoes and go be happy, never looking back. That's the most effective way to gain closure and have the life you deserve. unforgiveness is a cancer that will eat you alive, let it go.

My two cents, and I realize that not everyone will agree. But I advise this because I care about all of you.

Been there: Words of wisdom. I agree wholeheartedly. We must forgive. I do think it's a little harder when you are still 'in the process' of leaving her, staying no contact, etc. (maybe still getting occasionally abused by her, since kids are involved etc.) and then the eventual legal end of the relationship (divorce). It's a little hard to forgive while you are 'still in process', but very necessary after you are done, and ready to move on. Don't let them have any power over you by staying bitter, and unforgiving. Let it go, and heal and move on.

Find a healthy woman this time, and love her, and let her love you properly like it's meant to be. There are plenty out there. Just choose better this time...I sure will!!

This is a tough one for me. This idea of forgiveness is nebulous and elusive for me personally. I have done the best I could do with what tools I have to work with, which would be for lack of a better word, I have "settled" on letting go. I will never forgive, not on this trespass. So too I will never forget this chapter of my life as to do so would be to possibly repeat it's tragedy. This is not an example of forgive them for they know not what they do. Some things are simply unfathomable and unforgivable and cannot be undone. She deserves nothing from me, or the world, least of all my forgiveness or charity or pity for her intentional acts. For her I have ice in my veins and kerosene on my breath. She earned it.

I have come to believe that our deeds follow us like a legacy and have much to do with the course and shape of our futures. Each one of us is defined by our acts in the end, nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps I have been hardened by lifes fire and shaped by the anvil of my own experience and am somewhat jaded by my own path in this life. I have seen some real time conclusions and results to our works in this life and also personally have been through enough and have witnessed enough to make fairly accurate predictions about how things generally will shake out for folks in the end. In that I have come to see that my forgiveness is a thing that is earned for myself and also others, as in you reap what you sow. I have my own regrets, this experience being one of the larger ones. That is her wind to ride as well. In this instance I have settled for release for my sake only. I hope I can let go and let God and move forward with my life. I deserve that release. I deserve to forgive myself. I am at peace with that.

Birdboy, very correct sir. Forgiveness is not ours to give without repentance. In fact your forgiveness of the crazy one will only enrage her and lead to another beatdown. Why? Because in their world there is nothing wrong with them (NPD) or they feel you are judging them (BPD). Either case will release the demon.

Closure is another thing. It comes from acceptance and acceptance comes from understanding.

“Each one of us here today will at one time in our lives look upon a loved one who is in need and ask the same question: We are willing to help, Lord, but what, if anything, is needed? For it is true we can seldom help thoske closest to us. Either we don't know what part of ourselves to give or, more often than not, the part we have to give is not wanted. And so it is those we live with and should know who elude us. But we can still love them - we can love completely without complete understanding.” ― Norman Maclean

We can never completely understand why things turned out as they did but we can understand what possessed the crazy by studying the disorder types. In understanding that we begin to understand ourself and in that we can begin to forgive ourselves. My crazy one was unable to forgive herself by her own admission and would internalize it only to spit it back in black.

Closure comes when we realize there is nothing we can do to fix them other than prayer and forgive ourselves for our own behaviour and feelings. Closure is when we realize that it was not ours to fix.

A good article on that.

http://www.revelinitmag.com/acceptance-vs-forgiveness/

And the river runs through it. Thanx Chump.

Hatred, anger, bitterness.

I no longer hate her but I certainly feel sorry for her. Anger can be the catalyst that moves you down the road. As you travel that road you learn half that anger was at yourself. It fades with the journey. Bitterness dissolves when you get back into the sun.

Few extra thoughts on forgiveness: I am human, and still struggling some in this area too, but less and less I think.


If we wait until the person who wronged us apologizes before we forgive her, we fall victim to our rage and our wounds while we wait. We need to understand that forgiveness happens within ourselves; it is not an interaction with another. When we wait for an apology, we may be confusing forgiveness with reunion, or (in the worst case), we may be using others' apologies to obligate them to us.



Here are five arguments against forgiving an unrepentant person and counters each one.



If a person who wrongs us does not repent, she doesn't deserve to be forgiven.

Nobody deserves to be forgiven. Forgiveness is only for people who don't deserve it. Being sorry does not earn us the right to forgiveness.



Forgiving someone who does not repent is just too hard to do.

Forgiving unrepentant people is a no-lose opportunity to start your own healing.



To forgive an unrepentant person is not fair to ourselves.

Are we fair to ourselves by prolonging the bitterness and hate? Are we being fair to ourselves when we let the other, the very person who wronged us, decide when we get to forgive?



To forgive an unrepentant person is dangerous; if she feels no sorrow for what she did, she is likely to do it again.

Forgiving is not tolerance. We do not invite the person we forgive to get close enough to us to hurt us again.



The Bible says that we have to repent before we can get forgiven.

Does this mean that we should not forgive anyone until she is sorry for what she did? We cannot afford to wait for this before we begin healing ourselves. The person who hurt us should not be the one to decide whether or when we should recover from the pain she brought us.



Keep in mind that there is a difference between forgiveness and reunion. If a person who has wronged us wants to reestablish the relationship, she must come in sorrow and repentance. We cannot expect to be forgiven without being sorry for the wrong we did. But we should not demand sorrow for the wrong someone did to us. Repentance does not earn the right to forgiveness; it only prepares us to receive the gift.

I see your points Paul and they are well taken. Perhaps at some near future time I can get into that groove. The situation with me is that I'm LONG PAST any waiting for anything positive or normal from the transgressor. I have accepted that will NEVER happen. I suppose I'm working on closure first and am hoping the good things will follow when I am ready.
Today the sun indeed rises in a clear blue sky. I'm going to the beach with that dark eyed gal for a picnic. Life is GOOOOOOOD!

I find myself feeling more sympathy than anything for these people. Imagine being trapped in a body of an adult with the living skills of a 3 or 4 year old? There is no consistency. There is no ability for empathy. No way to truly communicate what you need. It has to be horrible.