hello. I'm new to this site, i just found it and I sure hope i can get some good advice...i'm dying inside.

Let me give you my situation. I met a girl about 3 yrs ago, we 'fell in love" i thought atleast...anyway, I had to go away for work and I had only knew her for about 6 mos. at this point but just before i leave the country on a 26 month work asignment, we find out that she's pregnant. now I just got back in july. While i was away she moved accross country to live with her brother and have the baby, etc. so I get home in july and she moves back to the east coast. We have an adorable 2 yr old son and ive been spending alot of time getting to know him and trying to make things work with her. I knew she was "off" but wasnt quiet sure what her deal was, but in speaking with her family i found out that she (they believe) is BPD. Now she says (and i tend to believe her) that she waited for me and didnt sleep with anyone the whole time i was away...whatever, i hope thats true but i can forgive that...but now shes been back on the east coast for a little over a month and we've been fighting alot. she's very intense and critical etc..well last week i seen on her email that she joined an internet dating site...i didnt say anything at first, figured i would think about it...and i came to the decision that i just cant be with herr, i dont trust her etc..well, when i was about to tell her about what i found and that i wanted to break up, she tells me that shes pregnant again. Lord only knows how it happened because we've only had sex a few times and we were very careful but not careful enough. I honestly dont have any doubt that the baby is mine but I am really confused on what i shoudl do from here. I am totally head over heals in love with this girl but im not feeling that she feels the same way (or sometiems she does, sometimes not) anyway...i think the best thing for me is to get away from her, even though its gonna break my heart but now that shes pregnant on top of all of this...idk. any advice??? please, i am really hurting inside!

Jim, everybody's situation is different. I have been married to an HPD for 21 years. It only gets worse. I am glad you discovered what the problem (BPD) was early.
I recommend leaving. Looking back, I should have left when the kids were too young to really know what was happening. I stayed, and I endured countless heartaches. That is heartache, after heartache after heartache, year after year, after year. I hope you get the picture.

You should check the paternity of the kids, just to be safe. These women entrap you. Mine lured me in with sex. We got married after a year and a half and then she immediately wanted to get pregnant.

After we built the house she wanted and had kids, I was devalued and discarded. My heart yearned for the woman that I married and showered me with sex and attention. But that woman was gone.
Don't waste your life like I did. There are many good women out there. I recommend taking a break from dating, also. That way you can figure out what attracted to you to such a woman to start with.

thanks, i needed to hear that. i can identify with the luring in of sex and attention. great advice. thanks again.

LOL! it sounds like we're dating the same girl! thats crazy but so true. I sometimes think that my gf hates herself so much that she has no respect for me because i love her. if that makes any sense. Also, i have been many other relationships and always seem to fall for the girls who mistreat me. its almost like a girl who really loves me and treats me well is boring...i need to talk to a shrink about that...anyway, I'm confused as to what i should do because she is pregnant and I dont know if i can leave her now...even though i found out she was "looking' online dating. she showed me her account and she never even spoke to anyone or dated..she was just looking but obviously that tells me that she is losing interest in me...im thinking that i can use that to my advantage to leave her now? or is that a really ****ty thing to do?

Respectfully, online dating sites and the PDI are ALWAYS a portend of things to come. Consider it her calling card or the opening sentence of your eventual Dear John letter. I recommend you peel your ears to Beatens advice on this subject. EVERY SINGLE WORD. The paternity test is essential NOW! Do not, I repeat, DO NOT underestimate these women on any level. If she is PDI and her mouth is moving, she is lying.

Paul, ofcourse i will take care of the children, thats not even a question in my mind. my question is should i stick around and try to make it work with this girl or bc of the internet dating thing is it acceptable to leave her now? also, about the lying...although i have caught her in a few lies, i have to admit she is basically an honest person. She is a recovering achololic and goes to AA meetings 3 or 4 times a week and she is really into the AA principals. she has caught me in a few "small" lies, basically i will tell her a small lie to avoid an argument because she tends to freak on the smallest of issues. anyway, after catching me in a lie, she freaks the hell out. i mean major fight, calling me a liar, devaluing me...maybe its to cover her own lies but i really dont think so. a few times ive caught her doing somthing and she has admitted it and owned up to it (where i might spin the situation to make myself look good) and idk, trust me, she is a mess and has alot of issues but lying doesnt seem to be one of them...maybe I just havnt found out yet.

See gettinbetter.com and go to article. See the one on training your bpd.

Lol **** Paul are you sure your name isn't Pauline? U must be a npb woman in descize! What a ridiculous reply u made

Paul, this guy has been coming onto the forum for a coupla weeks now. I have personally invited him to choose one name and join us in constructive dialog seemingly to no avail. I know that we are kind of old dudes and perhaps we take this internet neither space seriously for our specific purposes while some folks use it as a form of cheap entertainment. It is called "trolling". I have read about them. They do it for the all the reasons why a weak and impotent individual would. His comments have escalated to the personal in his quest for supply I now see. He knows we don't address each other in the manner he has chosen. His goal is to be disruptive. Nothing more, nothing less.

What he did in troll speak was what they consider "threw a bomb". It was easy to recognize as he is obviously a fumbling illiterate idiot with low functioning impulse controls. Most of these people are really screwed up in real life and hurl their frustrations into the anonymous world of the internet. It is really sad to witness from afar.

The best thing to do, me thinks, is to not respond to him directly as it is a waste of our wind and it would also spark up his weak ego and feed his dysfunctional need for sick attention. You will certainly recognize him in the future if he continues to visit this site under his various names. The best thing is to ignore him and he will eventually slink away and weasel himself into some other forum where he can do it all over again. It really is a tragic empty thing to witness, his jacking himself off in front of us. Cut him loose.

Birdboy: So, he's been leaving tracks...spelling looks like a dope on dope. That's probably accurate too.

Haha no worries Pauline. Ridicule my statement and blame my spelling, aka--NPD woman in descize alert.

Lol pauline, now ur calling me a dope head and telling me to get a life to ignore the fact that ur original comment was NPD at its best? U sound just like my ex. I feel sorry for your next victim Pauline.

**** don't reveal my identity!

Drewls a lot. Yeah, we can follow your trail...Whatever.

Back on topic.

Jim : I'd leave her too, you'll save yourself soo much trouble down the road. Paternity test = obligatory in your case.

Thanks Jack. i was wondering if this was gonna get back on topic lol. I basically ignored her for the past few days and then last night she finally cornered me into talking to her...what are we gonna do, etc...when i told her i wanted more time to sort things out, she forced me to discuss it then..so i told her that i dont trust her and I'm done. I'm finished. OMG! she flipped out BIG TIME...i had to chuckle when she said to me..."you think I'm crazy? you havnt seen crazy MF'R!!" "I'm gonna come up to your work and humilate you infront of everyone..blah blahb blah.." the she hung up on me, i was heading to her house to watch our son for a couple of hours so when i got there she was in tears...so we went to talk in private and she said that it was basically my fault, she brought up all of this stuff that happened years ago and how i have a double standard and I've been emotionally abusing her...craziness. She flipped all back on me, and then she told me about how shes been suicidal recently...well, any questions about her being BPD are gone. she pretty much did everything i read that she would do. we basically left it that our relationship is broke, i dont know if it can be fixed (to which she said that she would do anything..) and we're going to take a couple of days apart and then try to get together to discuss what we do next. she is pregnant and we have a 2 yr old son, so i cant just walk away. IDK, I'm in a good place mentally and emotionally. I know whats coming next...if i do leave her, shes gonna freak on me for a day or two..whatever, that doesnt bother me. if i stay and try to make it work, it'll be good for a while and then it'll be bak to the same old stuff. I think I'm gonna tell her that if she wants to try to make it work, then she has to go see a therapist. and not just go once or twice, i mean go and commit to go for a few mos. atleast. im sure it wont work, but atleast i will know that i tried everything i could think of for the kids...

Jim,

Good that you had a talk.

First of all : If you need time to think it over, you NEED time. This is your life, and too important to decide in a jiffy. She'll have to respect that.

Great that you had the guts to tell her how you feel about her, now she knows things clearly.

Flipping out is expected. The "you ain't seen crazy yet" seems to be a standard line for cornered BPD's (yep, I heard it too).

Next : start protecting yourself, as you can never predict how she'll feel today. Mine did come to my work to beat me up right in front of the lobby, and talked to my superior about how bad I am (he didn't buy it, just let her ramble). So, tell the receptionist at your work that under no circumstance she is to be allowed in the office; once you explain the situation, I'm sure they'll understand. Also, tell the phone operator never to pass her calls through to others, to avoid backstabbing with your colleagues.

Demand that she gets 2 PDI examinations, to take away any doubt that she's the one who's broken here.
The therapy condition is a good idea as well.

After the exams turn out she's a positive, demand a paternity test, as you can not trust her anymore and the kids are just too important in your life to ignore. You wouldn't be the first one raising someone else's child unknowingly.

Once you've covered all bases, start preparing your life as a single parent. It will give you so much more options down the road.

The most recent estimates in for men unknowingly raising children that are not biologically their own is "conservatively" one in twenty five births which is directly in line with the percentages of PD's in the general population. In some locations and disadvantaged economic populations the number is reported as high as thirty percent.

It is well known that PD women commonly have multiple relationships and multiple children with more than one man. I would imagine if PD's were isolated and DNA testing were done on this target group of children the numbers would be astounding. Roulette anyone?

thanks for the advice guys. let me ask you this..is it possible that she is BPD and not a "liar"? because of all of the BPD characterics that ive read, she fits them all except that i dont see her as a liar yet...yes, ive caught her in what i would call "common, she's human" type lies. i tell them, i think most of us tell them...but i havnt caught her in some sort of "secret life" major type lie and i speak with her sister, who they hate eachother and her sister believes that she is BPD but she does admit to me that she is basically an honest person, she has seen her in many relationships and she doesnt ever remember her being a cheater...idk, for some reason, thats the one that really gets me..if she is a cheater then i need to find out because then its an easy decision for me..i wont even devote another second to this realtionship...anyway, other than the lying..she displays all of the other BPD stuff, or atleast she did at times in her life. idont see her cutting or burning herself anymore but she has scars and told me that she used to...whatever...im gonna try to get her into therapy and if that doesnt work, then i'll just hang in ther for the kids as long as i can...not much else i can do. thanks again guys.

Mine was "honest" too......painfully. Used honesty as a means of slapdown. She just never told the whole story about her dalliances. Until I caught her dead to rights. Omission is still a lie. What they don't tell you can hurt you. And if she is not a cheater is the abuse worth it?

Stay if you like. Kids will hate you and she will clean you out. Bpd is a self fulfilling prophecy. And it does not "go away".

Jim, you have received some great advice on here.

Now, one thing that I disagree with is that you need time to make a decision. From what I have read about decision making, for it to be effective you go with your gut and follow through without question.

I will use some real world examples. From the book "Think and Grow Rich," (fantastic book) in which millionaires and successful men were examined on their thought processes, practices and beliefs, it is said that successful men make a quick decision and stubbornly stick with it.

Now, from my own experience, (and I'm trying to change this) I take too much time to come to a decision, and I often disregard my own decisions when pressured by outsiders. This has proved to be a dramatic flaw in my life. Every time I have gone against my initial decision it has backfired. You know what is right and best for you inside of yourself. Don't be like me and question it. Follow through...

If I can help one person avoid the mistakes I have made in my life it will be worthwhile.

great advice thank you guys. for some reason i have to admit...im not quiet ready to leave yet...even though i know its probably inevitable but idk. she is pregnant...that makes a huge difference for me. what will people think of me out there dating, while she is pregnant...idk. i dont really care that much about that but it does make me pause..plus i feel (please tell me if im being niave) that i can keep my guard up, keep reading up on this disorder and basically hang in there with her, enjoy whats to be enjoyed, and just know that its probably going to end in her either leaving, blaming me for somthing i didnt do, her cheating..whatever...im not sure if i can stay in the state of mind that im in right now, but right now I'm thinking "ok, shes a mess and she has tons of problems...shes probably going to cheat on me, try to hurt me in some other way..but if i know its eventually coming then i can be ready for it and make my plans for after her, stash a few bucks, set up whatever i can and just be ready for when it all falls apart.." i think i can do that, and if im expecting it then It wont hurt as much...now you guys can tell me how dangerous that is and everything..and i know, im probably not going to see it coming and she'll suprise the hell out of me and end it when im not expecting it..idk. honestly the only thing that would really kill me is if she is seeing someone else without my knowlege. that would really hurt me, i am the jelous type, i dont even like my gf's talking to another man..idk, im going to see if i can get her into therapy and hang in there until she has this child and see where things are at. im going to tell her that she crossed a major line with me when she loooked online dating and if i ever suspect that she is diong that again, im out. she wont even have a second to talk about it..the thing is...when we threaten to leave them, they freak out and cry and everything...it sorta makes us feel like they do love us and want us in their lives...its a hard thing to wrap my head around. i know they dont think or feel like we do but ****. how can they care about losing us and then not really care about us? ok, peace for now, thanks again everyone. take care of yourselves.

Life with the PD begins when you step into the quicksand of crazy. She has lived there long and can swim in it. You wade in to save her and slowly sink inch by inch. She will even go under to pull you down quicker now and then. When your head is going under she will announce that you are the crazy one and at that time she may actually be right. When you can no longer get out of her quicksand pool you are doomed. Look around, do you still have friends on firm ground trying to throw you a rope?. Probably not......they tired of you always throwing it back and left.....

" when we threaten to leave them, they freak out and cry and everything...it sorta makes us feel like they do love us and want us in their lives...its a hard thing to wrap my head around. i know they dont think or feel like we do but ****. how can they care about losing us and then not really care about us?"

They see the golden goose getting away. No more, no less.....

"You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run"

ofcourse i have but Ive felt that way about alot of things in my life, sometiems i was right, other times i wasnt. we just went for a long walk and talk and i explained to her that im at the end of my rope. she says that she loves me and will do anything to keep me...blah blah blah. i know she means it at this point in time. she knows that shes sick, she knows that she has alot of issues to work on. she can be so introspective and seem so sane. i just know that it doesnt last. i explained to her that i am willing to sty and work on things, we have kids to think about and I am willing to do my part to try to make this work but i need for her to get into therapy. i told her that she blames her issue on things like an ex bf who treated her wrong, her alcholism..i told her that some of that may be true but the one thing she never mentions is her childhood. she was abandoned by her mother, her father died when she was two. i told her that i think that is at the root of her problems and that she isnt able to have a normal, loveing relationship until she gets therapy and works on that issue. She said that she would definatly do that, when we can afford it, which wont be for a few months probably. she said (without me saying anything) that she doesnt want to be abusive towards me. she doesnt like the way she treats me. she knows that she has issues and harbors resentments and makes a big deal out of little things..but she said that she cant help it, in her sick mind she actually feels like shes justified in that moment. she seems to say all of the right things, she knows she has a problem so we'll see..im hopeful that i can get her into therapy soon and maybe she'll get a little better...maybe alot better, or maybe not better at all. at this point, she is pregnant, due in june. so i feel like its best for me to hang in there, try to get her to do some work on herself and seee what happens. I will definatly keep my guard up and try not to get hurt...idk what else to do. i dont want to walk away yet, and if i did, i wouldnt feel good about it, not while shes pregnant...i told her the next time i see that she was "looking' online dating, or anhything like that. im gone, no words, no discussion..ofcourse she didnt take that too well. she tried to spin it, how she stayed when i did this and that...whatever. i said my piece to her and we'll see if she will walk the walk,.

You fight a dragon with a teaspoon. What you said is logical and good but they have their own logic. Part of our learning I guess. I fear for you.....

LEAVE

Please do cheeser......boys in the back need some on their pizza...

And wipe your chin....that's disgusting.

No response cheesydik.....oh well.

Or was.that seize your dik....

Could not spell Caesar right could you mike?

Fleas.....room needs a flea bomb.....

Dear Jim,
On any relation ship, trusting it the very base.
Having children it's also important, you can always have your children close by, some body you don't trust it's better to keep a safe distance.
Not to diminish your judgments to the situations you having with your Lady,
but with all do respect don't base your decision in a hear say from your in-laws, or any other person, if you see the treats of a NARC.
validate them, if they are real then wherever your decision is you'll feel better about.

Respectfully
Cesar

BTAP: Props for sucking it up and staying for your two year old son. That was an important decision, even if you made a big sacrifice at that time. You put his needs before your own. That's a good dad. Not something a narc will do.

Close enough on that scripture. A godly wife is a great blessing. No doubt.

I hear you Beaten. I hear you too Ceasar. I spent the weekend with her, we had a nice talk, took our son to the park, had great sex. she cooked for me, did my laundry. as i was driving home tonight, i thought...man if she was only able to stay the way she was this weekend, I'd marry her and raise our kids together..life could be so nice...but I know she can'thelp herself. I have to give her alot of credit because she admits she has a problem. she is willing to get help, she says she loves me - even though i honestly dont think shes capable of loving someone..but im hopeful that i can get her into therapy and keep on her to maintain her therapy, hopefully the therapist will identify her as a BPD and help her to get better. My fear is that (I'm 45 yrs old, she's 30) ten years from now, she's going to go off the deep end and leave me..I'll be 55 and It will be so hard to deal with at that point. Leaving her now will be so much easier to rebuild my life, find another partner to grow old with..idk, I'm going to try to hang in there while shes pregnant and in therapy and give it a year or so to see how she is. If i dont see any real progress then I'll just have to pull the plug and move on. I dont want to act too fast and not think of our children and what us splitting up will do to them and I dont want to hang around until im in my 50s and then try to rebuild. I'll keep my guard up and try to accept the fact that she is what she is and it probably isnt going to work...and if im wrong then that would be great. thanks everyone.

Jim, there is a thread on these boards in which the men discuss their age and the age of their narcs. Apparently, narcs go for older men. When you are 55 will she have destroyed you emotionally, financially, and physically by then? Will you be able to bounce back?
I'm having a helluva time getting back up at 46.