I get to travel for work a great deal, so I have a lot of windshield time to reflect on my life. It makes for some long days at times.

So, today, I had the urge to text my wife and tell her that if we reconciled things that I would treat her like a queen the rest of her life.

The urge to send her this message was tremendous. I stopped myself. I thought, is that something that she could respect?
Then, I wondered, why would I think such thoughts and feel such things?
Why would I want to devote my life to treating her like a queen?
I'm sure there are plenty of women who would like to treat me like a king. In fact, at one time my wife did treat me like a king.

So, why would I feel such a longing to have a wife that I would treat in such a way?
Did you guys feel this way about your BPD's?

Any comments on any of the questions I raised are appreciated.

I've had fleeting moments where I have felt that way. Then when I pause I realize, NAW!!! I'd never say such a thing, especially to a BPD. Why? Because I would not mean it outside of that "moment". Nowadays I'm involved with a fine "normal" woman. I do feel this way about her, truly, but I'm not about to say such a thing. In this case I believe actions speak louder than words or passionate declarations.

Sounds like the bargaining stage of grief.

http://www.psychforums.com/relationship/topic84035.html

We truly grieve these women. It is a human thing right up with death of a loved one. I used to have the same feeling but I HAD treated her like a queen. Stupid me! The final stage of grief is acceptance and there you find closure. "There was nothing to be done".

Beaten,
We have gotten to know each other pretty well over the past six months, and in that familiarity I tend to treat you with kid gloves because you hold up and hide behind your children as your shield of indecision for your own self determination. Weather I feel that is legitimate cause for continuing with a dysfunctional marriage is really beside the point. I feel, and you do have every right to disagree, children or no, that your impulse for undying declarations is not white knightery at all but rather the last gasp of any real feelings, good or bad, you have for this most despicable and disagreeable woman.

The truth of the matter is that you may have had a misdirected "love" for her at one time but I feel I need to be honest with you at this juncture. The fact is, as I see it, if your characterizations to us of her are factual, you do not even "like" her. Who would, she is a histrionic BPD whom has shown absolutely total disregard for you personally, privately, and in public!

Beaten...I'm new to this site, but you gave me some great tips and advice on my bpd girlfriend and you helped me so much. I have to tell you, you seem like a smart and caring dude. I'm sure there are better women out there for you. trust me, i know how hard it is to let go of these kinds of relationships and your married on top of it, with kids...it sucks bro. big time. but life is short, time is ticking away. Get rid of this woman, she doesnt deserve you. You may have some self esteem issues (i know i do and my bf loves to prey on them) but you must know deep down that you are better than her. she is simply beneath you, as most of these women are to us. from what i read, its guys like us (good guys, who want to please our women and make them happy) that are the perfect bait for these types of women. She'll never appreciate you and never give you the love you deserve from your woman, so screw it. leave her alone, go through the pain because without going through it, you cant get to the other side. which is where you belong, you deserve to be happy. so take a day or two to get your head right and then end it, for good. finally tell her that its absolutly over...you probably dont have to tell her. dont worry about getting the last word or being the one who left her..just get out and heal your wounds and then go find a good girl, one who deserves you. and yes, to answer your question..i get in those loving moods all the time and make the mistake of sending my gf a text to tell her how beautiful she is or whatever....those things only make our bpd's respect us less because they hate themselves and dont respect anyone who loves them. LOL! look at me, reading on the internet for a day and im talking like an expert. just saying...these are the exact things that im telling myself.

I appreciate all of the support guys. I don't know how I became so stubborn in my life. I just get determined to do something and I don't know how to call it quits.
Maybe that is something I should look into also. Why can't I give up? Pride perhaps?

BTAP,

The definition of insanity is ...

No offense, just pulling you one.

You're trying to get something working (your wife's appreciation), and it doesn't. You don't know how to continue, so you keep trying in the same way, hoping to one day get the desired result.

I've read your previous messages, and here's an advice:

Your wife has chased YOU when times were good, and you were alpha.
Now that you've become beta, she's not into you anymore.

To me it's pretty obvious where you need to go...

One tip : trying to tell her you love her or adore her, is clearly beta; alpha's basically don't care about the woman, so they never say things like that. With this approach, you're pushing her away, because it's the alpha she's looking for.

Try following this idea, and see what you get.

Good message from Jack! If Beta doesn't work--try Alpha? I mean if you are going to stay in there and want to experiment-- What the heck right? I would just say this--first it isn't going, in all probablility, to work and if it does to a degree--when you go back to loving and adoring her--after faking like ya didn't--you will be vulnerable again and get creamed. At least that is my opinion. To love is to leave your flank undefended! If that person doesn't have your back they can destroy you!!!These woman are trojan horses. They come bearing gifts and the next thing you know the enemy is in your wheelhouse. To present Alpha to this woman is to beg for the next Trojan Horse! You got time for that nonsense???

On the other hand Jack makes perfect sense to the degree he is talking about basic battlefield tactics. But why with the same woman.

Beaten, I have sent the very same text before..really! And they dont feel it! Thats the problem they dont FEEL IT! They are not capabale of it.

Play the game if you are gonna. I guess Alpha the way to go here, but for God's sakes man do not allow her to re-injure you. she will if she can.

I have to agree with the others here BTAP. I have done just what you described, treated my wife like a queen for a while(when we were married), and I got absolutely nothing for it. Turns out I was employing some nice guy behavior in that I was running a covert contract expecting something from it. When I got nothing, I was angry. It was just wrong to even get that started, so save yourself some disappointment.

I'd also like to recommend you read some of the info at The Rational Male blog. There is plenty of insightful stuff there, and even one on appreciation, or more to the point a woman's complete lack of it. Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life is also pretty good, but I think his wife is a normal woman.

I also once thought as you did, as bad as things were I still had some glimmer of hope and I would not file for divorce. She threatened plenty of times, especially when she would run away and then text me telling me she was through. Then one day she told me she filed and I thought she was bluffing. Turns out she wasn't, but by this time hope had faded away and I was done. I was determined I wasn't going to be her b!itch and beg and grovel. That would have solidified my position as her sub, and I couldn't let my kids see their father gutted.

In the end, we divorced but now she is trying to hoover me back, saying she didn't mean it etc. Yeah, what kind of fool does she take me for anymore?

To Beaten, I am new here but yes, I have had the impulse to send her texts, flowers, gifts, etc., all the no avail. I learned the hard way that I was so deep into the deception that I got caught up in allowing my identity be defined by this woman. In the end, she tossed me out after ripping me to shreds. I am now on a journey of healing. I believe that I will get to the other side of the pain and be a better person for it and like the other brothers mentioned, there is someone else out there that will treat us better and appreciate us. Hang in there.

Agreed, I'd say my faith and trust in her is broken.

I have been being alpha lately. Things seemed to be different. She was more engaging and stuff. But, today, she was back to her cold self.
I didn't act like I gave a crap, though.

I used to date some really good women. I recall being able to express emotions, vulnerability, and so forth with them, and yet, they treated me like a man.
I always liked my emotions. They have been bottled up for a long time.

Have you guys found women out there that will accept you for who you are and allow you to not be superman all of the time?

Most I have been with with the one exception. I was ripe for a hostile takeover.

Beaten,
Yes... many! Beaten you truly crack me up on a couple of levels. Allow??? That is a scary concept. What I'm looking for is a woman who doesn't mind me peeing off the front porch.

Birdboy: That's for sure. A healthy relationship is about man and woman loving, honoring and caring for each other mutually, not having to 'bury' feelings, or 'using' what they know about each other as a weapon, to manipulate and control each other, or trying to 'act' like someone you are not (more alpha or whatever) so both can get some more of what each one wants for themselves.

Being in relationship with an NPD leaves you thinking 'maybe' if I do this, or 'act' this way, or 'say' this, or 'withhold' this, or 'give her everything' she wants while taking 'nothing' myself, then she will be 'happy' or we might have some 'relationship' but it is never EVER enough. Never will be, because that woman is damaged on a very deep emotional level from before you met her.

No relationship is ever 100% perfect even with two fairly healthy, emotionally normal people, but the normal give and take, interaction with husband and wife known as 'love' based on honesty and empathy is just not there, or likely ever will be, with an NPD partner. I guess each person has to come to grips with that themselves as to whether they want to live that way or not, and where there spouse is on the sliding scale of narcissism. If they are malignant...Run.

Here is a great pertinent article:

http://gettinbetter.com/dance.html


The last paragraph sums up some pertinent things too:

SHE LOVES ME, SHE LOVES ME NOT . . .

To their partner, the Borderline's behaviors seem counterintuitive, and I get questions about this all the time; "If they're so afraid of abandonment, why do they push people away?" Here's my analogy: If you've chosen never to go through a divorce because you've seen the destruction it's wreaked in others lives--wouldn't you have to avoid getting married? The Borderline is terrified of abandonment. He/she doesn't allow themselves to attach, for fear of the annihilating pain that could follow if they do! You will never change this.

The Borderline will punish/deride you for failing to love her well enough--but she'll push you away, the instant that you do! Quite literally, you're ****ed when you adore the Borderline, and ****ed when you don't. This is totally confounding, and leaves you with a sense of hopeless longing for that which cannot be gratified. This lack of reciprocation in loving reactivates childhood wounding, and it's highly toxic to you.

When you've grown up gaining a sense of worth from being the perfect child or accommodating a parent's needs, and backing that up with rescuing or fixing impulses in adulthood, you're pretty confident you'll turn this deal around--if you just keep working at it! If you can just stabilize your partner, all will be right in your world. After all, you've accomplished other great feats, and this will prove no different, right? Wrong. This is your narcissistic injury talking, and it's needing to be healed. Core issues that are not resolved, are doomed to keep repeating.

I know I'm measuring in inches, but here it goes...

We had probably 4 1/2 or 5 good days last week. As I said, I am not going out of my way to appease her. I don't try to search for things to have conversations about. If I don't feel like talking, I don't. This is remarkable progress in my marriage. You guys can beat me up if you want. I'm grateful for it though.

On another front, my oldest son (He's 19) has some hard feelings towards me over the years. I worked too many hours, wasn't patient enough with him and so forth. We all make mistakes with our oldest.
Well, we had a discussion the other night and we seemed to make progress also.
I know not to get to emotionally high from a little progress now. But, as I stated, I am grateful for it.

Beaten: Just one other thing. I jumped the gun and made some rash statements in the past with my 17 year old son, and admitted it, and asked him to forgive me, because I was wrong, and I knew it. That takes a real man too. Most are stuck in pride, and won't do it. It's good for you and for your son too! Experience talking here.

Interestingly enough, shortly after I put in here that my wife and I had 5 good days, she went cold last night. She wasn't mean or anything. Just silent and cold.
I'm journaling all of this. So, while I'm here I may as well attempt to figure out what happens.
I sometimes think its from her watching the LMN Movies where the guy does bad stuff. I really think she gets mad at me when she watches this stuff.

The ex crazy once said, out of the blue, "I'm not crazy, my reality is just different than yours". I said Huh?, and immediately thought of the Cheshire cat.

Hi BTAP,

Talking for my self, I just not only felt that way, but a did anything in my power to pleased her over and over again, for five years of trying I did not succeed to complete pleased her.
One day I just left, it was a hard decision to make,
thanks to the support from James, the bloggers, friends and, family,
I'm a N free.
If I give her love never enough, money never enough, a N will never be pleased.
I remember a comment that I heard from coomodoug(Fred Payne)
show me how much you love me and show you how much I'll make suffer.

Keep educating your self,

Respectfully,
Cesar

Events of the day:

She and I went shopping together for a bit for the kids. A guy came into the store we were at that owed her money at her store. I said out loud, "did he ever pay you the money he owed you?"
She made a disapproving face at me and said that there was no need to be "rude."
I said, the guy didn't pay you money he owed you, and you are worried about being rude.
She said that he finally paid her.
So, from what I gather, a guy can screw her over financially and she doesn't want to offend him. But, she can withhold love and affection from me for years because of whatever.
I didn't bring it up further because I am trying not to give a ****.

Later, I spent some time with my father in law. He and I have a great relationship. We talked for a couple of hours together. His wife is very rude to him most of the time. I know that is where my wife learned it.
Anyway, he went on to tell me what a good father I was, and how years ago he had a conversation with his wife that one day the kids will be gone and it will just be "us." He said he told her this because she was so wrapped up with the kids.
He implied that my wife and I needed to have that conversation before it is too late. Well, I had that conversation with her many times over the years. I did not tell him this. Anyway, her response to me was always derogatory. I figure my father in law met the same responses.

He did say a few things to me about learning to be different. He said it was too late for him now, he's 77, but he said I could change how I am. He said this primarily because he knew I worked too much over the years (just like him).
It was nice talking to him again one on one.
I think he knows that there are problems in my marriage. I think he knows that I have done my best. I also think he knows about my affair, and he still loves and accepts me as a son in law.

Sorry for the rambling post. Maybe you guys can read between the lines and spot something that I am missing on this.

On the bright side your stories are always a good reminder for me about how good I "got it". Seems like you don't "really" hear him, just like you don't really "listen" to us.

HOPE! My take on that concept is that hope is futile. Hope is the regret of the vanquished. Without hope there is no expectation. Without expectation there is no disappointment. Without disappointment there is freedom. By abandoning hope, every day is a good day. Anything is possible.

I think hope is misplaced-in this context it (hope) simply is the chain that binds us. It keeps us trapped Beaten. We can be Alpha Beta, Delta and act all day like we don't care-these woman are immune to all that. They are missing --get that ? Missing those parts-emotions-that would allow them to function in any predictable way. They can't even predict. They are rudderless and when we attach we are as well. My point-you know that now! Once we know , it is on us man. 2+2 will never equal 5-pigs don't fly and don't recite poetry no matter how much we hope they will.

We can play the game all we want now but we know the deal we become accomplices and co-conspirators to the extent we do. Consider yourself just that when you hope and experiment. Nobody knows your situation better than you, but your posts suggest you have decided to set out to prove the earth is flat or that the Easter Bunny is real. You seem like a good guy-normally strong who is used to handling anything and believes you can fix her so you are tinkering with your own wiring to make it connect properly to hers. If you pull that off you will probably get the Nobel Prize. But to be honest, I think my Schnauzer has a better chance to become a concert pianist.

Hey back from my little trip well actually been home since last Wednesday. I put 2400 miles on myself and my truck. I had a lot of time thinking and I've come to a conclusion. I made the wrong choice pretty d a m n simple. Its been a struggle but after spending time with my children and grandson it was pretty easy to see. So I guess what I think at this point is don't look back you can't change whats happened learn from it. I know that sounds pretty simplistic I guess it really is that simple. These freaks I use the term lightly we were involved with are going their merry way and just let them. You can expend tons and I do mean tons of time and energy trying to make sense from madness. Many of us here have but truly its pointless. You guys KNOW whats important even if many of you just can't let it go. I went through the many stages of confusion trying to figure out why the truck hit me why me. Well the truck had to hit someone. And the truck is going to hit the next someone. Just don't let it be you again...... end of line

PEACE!

ahhhhhhhh nothing more attractive than a woman with a brain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XDb0nxSO4

So, she was cold and distant again tonight. I can't make the effort anymore.

So, in a divorce case, do I put myself at a disadvantage if I move out?

If you are a male you are at disadvantage no matter what you do.

Beaten-get immediate legal advice before doing anything-could be complex! Think about every move before you make it-Godspeed sir-we are here for you brother!