Hi,

Today at one point she gave me the full load of her frustration; meaning she played the same record she always does about me being such a piece of sh*t.

Instead of getting upset about all the insults, I managed to distance myself from her words. A lot of it was projection, so I just kept the idea that she was talking about herself. So I smiled back at her, and said nothing (the kids were there). The worse the sh*t she threw at me, the bigger I smiled, the more her frustration grew.

Fast forward a few hours, and she starts to come up really close to me, while repeating the same rubbish. I smile back, and try to push a quick kiss on her nose, at which she immediately pulls back, surprised.

Half an hour later, she wonders why she loves me so much, while I'm such a no-good person. To which I reply jokingly "ah, the eternal mystery of love..."

After the kids are in bed, she started fondling my crotch in the kitchen; I'm pretty sure tonight's gonna be party time.

Looking back, I summarize : I basically kept up the alpha (completely ignoring her feelings), and it seems to have been quite an attraction to her. She's ovulating too, so alpha has priority now.

Also, I wonder : was all that sh*t she threw at me before some kind of sh*t test, to see if I'm "worthy" of her, to check if I could be thrown off my mark?

Weird creatures, women...

She wants to have nothing to do with her emotions and was trying to dump them on you.. Good thing you didn't accept the baggage.. keep up letting her keep her issues.. they aren't your burden..

Jack, I know many here are at odds for me for staying, but, I think I am really learning a great deal about myself in the process.

Okay, the times that I have been strong, and a little out of reach, my wife was all over me. The times that I needed love and affection and support, she couldn't handle it.
They aren't capable of something, I just can't put my finger on what it is. Perhaps it's empathy. Perhaps its just giving and supporting others.
But, when you are strong and providing for them, they love you.

When I finally caved in to the other woman's advances and said screw the marriage, my wife showed a sudden interest in me. We never did anything (just her and I together) for my birthdays and anniversaries. I would ask her and she always said "no." Now, during my brief affair she wanted to go out with me for my birthday and for our anniversary.

With deeper examining of my life, when I have felt good and strong, she was a good wife. In fact, she was an exceptional wife. I think they need strong men. They need a man who is stronger than most men out there. I knew that when I got involved with her. I was just a narc and thought I could handle it. I thought I was better than the average guy.

Anyway, if this helps, work on yourself. Don't do anything just because you think it will win her over. Don't cut her hair in a way that you think she will like it. Don't dress a certain way because you think she will like it.
Don't act a certain way because you think she will like it. Be yourself. Be strong. Work out. I highly recommend reading Think and Grow Rich. It is all about conditioning your mind to control the outcomes of your life and even more.

I recently grew a beard. My wife didn't like it because it has a lot of gray in it. I told her that I wasn't going to shave it off. I am really working on my confidence.

Now, something else. They are scared to death to be abandoned. I realize now that another error I made was not reinforcing to my wife that I loved her without being mushy or needy. For instance, I had a couple of years of dire poverty in my late teens and early twenties. I worked through that with a great deal of effort. It was very traumatizing for me. So, I found that making lists and performing tasks was the best way to avoid poverty, which still scares me to death.
So, I had a list of things to do on our counter. My wife added "Tell me that you love me" to the list.
She would always accuse me of cheating early on. I should have reinforced to her that I wouldn't cheat and do it in a strong manner.
I just never knew how to respond to her because it was a constant bombardment of insecurities coming from her.
I should have just stayed strong and been her rock.
That is what they need, in my humble opinion. A man that won't be moved. A man that accepts her craziness and is not impacted by it. They really want to please a man deep down inside. They need the constant reassurance from us.
It is a lot of work. I am working on myself to establish who I am and not to be influenced by her. She is gradually coming around.
She is still furious over my affair with her best friend, which she should be. I shattered her stability. I think it retriggered whatever her childhood fears and trauma were.

Again, when I have been strong and autonomous, she was a fantastic wife. When I have had moments of doubts and discouragement, it sent her spiraling.

Sorry, but I will add some more examples...

A couple of days ago we were driving somewhere. We were stuck behind a person who was driving very slow. It was driving my wife crazy. She told me to get up on their bumper to make them go faster.
I told her if I got up on their bumper that I would just end up rear ending them when they stopped.
She was going on non-stop about other drivers, traffic, the time...and on and on. I remained calm and laughed at her a bit.
Then, when we got there I casually said to her, "see we made it here without you blowing a gasket."
She laughed and made some remarks about herself.

Today we were at the store picking up some food. She made a remark about me not knowing what she wanted. I told her that I wasn't a "mind reader."
It's just little things like that. I got worn down to the point that I was always apologizing to her when she went off. In fact, about 6 months ago I noticed that she just made me nervous in general. She no longer makes me nervous. I am in control of myself.

She has been much happier in general over the last couple of weeks. I like it. She is a lot of fun at times. She is a pain in the ass, but I also love that about her, too. I just don't worry about her demands anymore. I don't go out of my way for her anymore. I think she likes that also.

My marriage is not out of the woods yet. But there is progress being made.
It sounds like you are learning a few of the tricks yourself Jack.

Oh, also, I never was really bothered by her flirtatious behavior. For some reason stuff like that doesn't bother me. But, there were times that I called her out on it. Not because I was angry, but to set clear boundaries. She would immediately humble herself and try to make it up to me. That was during times that I was strong.
At times that I was weaker and I called her out, she would fight back. So, everything depends on your position of strength in the relationship. They want to serve a man. Either they will submit and serve you from a position of weakness, or they will serve you for their own main course. It's really up to us.

Beaten you can go on for pages about "what" is so mysterious about her behavior when you are aloof and detached of their silly circus, but really you could explain in in one short sentence.

SHE IS AFRAID YOU ARE SLIPPING FROM HER GRASP! That's seesaw life in hooverville.

I realize that. The thing is, when I met my wife I knew what I wanted in life, but my desire to attain what I wanted was not strong enough. I allowed her to take control of it.
But, she easily would have went along with whatever I expected of her if I would have exerted myself. This is where I went wrong for myself. So, even if this marriage doesn't work out, at least I learned that I have to go after what I want. She has to go along with it. I had things backwards. I didn't have the desire to pursue my own best interests. Now I am getting that desire.
The bottom line is, in the last three years I have threatened to leave, she has threatened to throw me out. We are somehow still together. I am cleansing my body of the toxicity that existed in it from this relationship. I will re-establish myself, and set clear boundaries when needed. I have to be in charge of my life. That is my primary goal. If the marriage works, it works, if not, then so be it.
My mistake was making my marriage my top priority in life instead of myself.

At least I have this awareness now.

Sooner or later Atlas will flinch.
Secondly BTAP you have a right to live anyway you want. If this is your path that is fine with me. I only speak for myself. For me, to live like a rock island in the currents of a relationship is one river I could do without. The image of a one armed man in a rowboat comes to mind.

Good point.

I will talk a bit about the progress that has occurred. A group of women that my wife went to college with, all crazy drunks back in the day, came into town last weekend and invited my wife to go out with them. She told them no and stayed home.

Now, I am not going to consider her in becoming a rock. My rock will be my goals and what I want in life. It will be based on my values. I will have to live this life according to what I want, and we will see if she falls in line.

As I said, I need to take responsibility for my life and what has happened in it. It is all 100% on me. I have made a good and honorable effort. But that effort was misguided. Something happened to me and I lived to please others. That has stopped.

btap,

You hit the nail on the head.. Narcs respect strength.. the despise compassion..
She thinks you are weak and easily manipulated if you are helpful.. this is how their sick minds work..

In the real world.. if you can be emotionally available and tolerate the vulnerability that comes with that.. then you are strong

But to them.. only a faux armor is respected

4

Being just a man, I know that it is impossible to be invincible and wear the armor day in and day out. That's why I will just have to follow my own pursuits and let her follow. I think she will be content to do that. But, I can't do this thinking in terms of how it will impact her. I have to do it for me.
For normal women, this isn't necessary. As a matter of fact, you have to think of the impact on them. BPD's see that as weakness.

Sorry again about holding this thread hostage.

I wanted to add some other things...

There was a time, just before my affair, that I really had enough of my wife's $hit. It was around 4 or 5 years ago. I really was unhappy with everything in my life at the time. It was the first time in my life that I began working on myself. I started jogging among other things.
Back to the point. My wife started hanging around a bunch of stay at home total narc moms. They drove me freaking nuts with their behavior. I called my wife out numerous times about her and her friends behavior.
I finally was like, screw it. I basically went on my way in life and didn't bother talking to her or anything. I remember one night, I was just sitting on the couch doing my own thing. She came into the room and put her arm around me and kissed me. She didn't say anything. She just kissed me and walked away.

The point of this is, I think in their own way, narcs/bpd's do care. They have no idea how to express their care. They just have no idea how to show affections or express feelings when a relationship grows past a certain point. They are just lost and they don't know what to do. I think they panic and they act out. Or they withdraw. But, they still want you to care, they still want you there. They just are incapable of saying it.

The BPD way......welcome to the dark side.....

BTAP :

Wow, looks like we're in the same position; I've had the same experiences and realizations in my marriage.

We're still married, but on the verge of divorce (she filed).

Wife came around big time recently, after a long game of upping each other (you know, her trying to over-bluff with threats of abandonment/destruction/whatever, and me showing I didn't care). When she noticed I was seriously going ahead with the divorce, she broke down into tears and told me how much she loves me.

In my case, I also started about a month ago to only care about my own interests (and the kids'); hers were out of the picture : like "No, your quick errand will have to wait for another time, I need to recover now from the stress of this morning". My interests first, then the rest: I've announced that from next year, I'll start flying RC-planes again, one of my old-time hobbies; she had always denied me to start again. When I was in a hurry in traffic, my wife said that I start to drive crazy. My response : "I haven't been karting recently" (because of her), so that's gonna happen too in the near future...

I think that, once you show that you're nr 1 now, they'll try to sh*t test you out of it at first; but if you stand your ground, they'll happily accept it and follow you wherever you go. Women need a strong man to follow; they're nurturing creatures, which by definition is a trailing role.

For now, I'll let her stay with me as long as things go well; but I'll keep the divorce option open, just to be sure.