Hello Gents,

This is not specifically about abusive women, but about women in general. Given the fact that normal women who get frustrated become abusive, it is still relevant in this context.

Finally some women start to become aware that women in general have no clue about what a man needs in a relationship; more so, they involuntarily frustrate us by their disrespectful behavior. I've come close to this same conclusion myself, but here's a woman who has done the field-work, and has the numbers to back it up :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0cFE0pg2_I

This video is specifically targeted to women, but she made it her mission to educate both sexes about the gender-differences in thinking, and how we all involuntarily frustrate our partner because we're convinced that everyone thinks like ourselves. They don't. And she goes as far as pointing out that our brains are wired differently, so we CAN NOT think in the same way. We're just not able to, the pathways in our brains do not allow it.

Once you realize that, everything that frustrates you about your partner, will be seen in a totally different light. Moreover, she points out that women have the ability to turn a man into an excellent man, but also to break him down into the dungeons of misery, simply by choosing the way she reacts to him. And she does not forget to mention that with great power comes great responsibility. And to my idea, this is where it goes wrong with most women: 1 - they have no clue about their positive power, and the alternative options they have to propel their man (and themselves) into greatness; 2 - assuming that men have the same needs ("everyone has the same needs, right?"), they stay stuck in their detrimental behavior ("Why don't you give me what I need!"), frustrating their man endlessly, and thereby sinking a good ship.

She also made an excellent point noting that women try to understand men by ASSUMING reasons for his behavior. Over the years, all these assumptions lead her to a picture of men's behavior that she accepts as a template for 'a regular man'. She doesn't even have a clue that most of her assumptions are totally incorrect; that men often do have a valid reason for the things they do; but that she just looks at the outside snapshot, and assumes that what he did was not very clever. I think this leads her to believe men are stupid. I also think that in a relationship, when her man shows any of the behaviors that resembles those in her template, she will immediately see it as confirmation that men ARE stupid, and will start showing it to him; leading straight to the worst emotion her man can feel.

Someone should propose this woman for the National Achievement Award; I think these insights will make a huge difference in people's lives.

Anyhow, I hope this gives you guys some explanations about the behavior of your women. Knowledge is power, and it gives you a better idea about why they do what they do...

Happiness looks finally within reach...

Hay Jack,

At the grand age of 54 I came to the exact same conclusion, (my light bulb moment). I suddenly understood men see the abstract logic while women see the abstract emotional in any given situation. It's much harder for me to describe than understand. That's the difference in our wiring. They FEEL - We "see" LOGIC.

Say for example there is a pain in a knee. (OK not a good example but it's the best I can do)

men say - I "have" a pain in my knee

women says - I "feel" a pain in my knee

We each have the pain - we just experience it differently internally. AND more importantly - we describe it differently. As men, we're expected to "feel" with a woman - we expect her to "see" with us.

A woman "feels" she is a wife or GF. A man says he "is" a husband or BF

As I said easier to understand than write.

I recently used this in a situation in work with a stroppy co-worker woman and it worked wonders - I used the phrase "without diminishing the emotional context you feel, there is no need for emotion here and now - this is just work, can you see that and help me?

Holy Moly mother of the big guy.... you'd think I just discovered the grail!

BUT.... The danger is not to underestimate their capability for logic and for women (especially) to NOT underestimate a mans capability for emotion or especially empathy.

All men "know" that women have a high "emotional intelligence" and high empathetic capability's. The mistake women make is to diminish or deny this capability in ALL men. Men's upbringing hasn't helped by making children "play down" this ability in boys growing up... What is it we're expected to do when we're told as children to "grow up and be a man"? - Answer...Not show an emotional response to something. (the media doesn't help)


BIG QUESTION.... who usually tells us that -------- Ta DA !!!! - our Female role model - typically our mothers. So starts the conditioning of emotion out of men. Then they complain we don't feel - go figure.

How many of us has been told by our respective PDIs to "grow a pair" = don't use YOUR emotion - that's my weapon. How dare you use my own weapon against me!

Moreover, they believe that this has been accomplished in ALL men - that's a dangerous assumption because NO it hasn't - men feel... men have emotional intelligence and men can and do have empathy. We've just had it turned down during our formative years - by a frigging woman (usually). Maybe that's why some women especially PDI's feel so superior - they believe that only they have this empathy and it's a weapon to maintain that superiority. When in fact, it just fracks the relationship.

The other side of the coin, of course - we underestimate a woman's logical capabilities - this again through stereotypical role reinforcement.

When the Romans invaded Briton - they were met with both women and men warriors - current gender roles are a recent phenomena, emotional and logical equality has been conditioned away from us.

The day I understood that - life became much easier, and I understood what made narc the younger and narc the older tick.

Simple answer........................





EMOTIONAL SAFETY


that's all any of us want - but we go about it differently


I have a need vs I feel a need.

Hello New,

I had the same conclusions as you, but now it has been proven that women have a big responsibility in the happiness of a relationship too.

A couple weeks ago I read somewhere that a happy marriage is a marriage where the man is happy, no exceptions. If a normal man is happy, he'll make his woman happy too. Problem is usually that most women primarily care about their own happiness in the first place.

It comes a bit as a surprise to me that we men are so dependent on our women on that level. Being a man, you're considered to be quite INdependent for those things.

For the question where our male behavior comes from, you're right about environmental factors while growing up. But I also think there's many more factors that contribute:

While growing up, a boy learns very quickly that he needs to CONTROL his wants/feelings/emotions, or he will get into trouble very quickly. Our testosterone-induced behavior is often unacceptable in these times, so part of growing up for a boy is to learn to keep it under control. That is, if he wants to be accepted by his peers.

Yes, it is frustrating, but also a necessity these days. And I think that we instinctively perfected the easiest solution : ignoring our feelings. No feelings, no aggression, no problems.

Another factor is that our testosterone behavior also induces us to hunt for success (supremacy) in everything we do. And we found out that when you can totally focus on the goal you're working on, your chances of reaching success are a lot higher. Along the way we learned that emotions easily divert us from reaching our goal; thus, in our hunt for achievement, we learned to push emotions on the side-track.

Unfortunately, girls growing up do not have those requirements. As they grow up, they learn that life is all about emotions, and they go full-out on experiencing them. For them, managing your life is all about managing the emotions in your life. That's why women always put such importance on how they feel in a relationship.

Unfortunately, as women live on emotions, they are not allowed to limit their peers' experience; that would be seen as an intention to take away the very source of life.

And that means...

that less and less women get taught about the limits and the limiting of emotions...

The lack of a father figure in their education also contributes to this; they have never seen an example of someone restraining themselves emotionally and focusing on the bigger picture of things. As such, their belief of the emotion-life has never been clearly countered, and they continue further down the chosen path...

I agree on not underestimating the emotional capability of men or the logic capacity of women. Like you say, generalization is risky, and there are numerous examples in history of female scientists and male artists. And I do feel that when I focus on my sensitive halve, I can connect to others in an amazing way.

Problem is to keep control when being sensitive. You need to allow feelings to come in, but at the same time you need to keep an eye on how far you want to let it go (= logic). Being single-threaded, it requires quite an effort from a man's brain, which is why we usually don't go that way.

A lot of philosophical points, but I finally feel I start to understand life...


Jack

Jack - I am rapidly learning respect for you. It seems to me that you have had some pretty dreadful times in life, as have I, and I salute you for the strength you have shown in working through their effects. Good for you.

I just wanted to comment that to me it seems unconvincing that men and women are THAT different in their capacity for rational thought. Maybe you agree? I don't think that's it. They have different ways of thinking, sure, and that has a lot to do with learnt strategies. But principally, men have the stronger sex drive, and that can be played for all it's worth. That's where women get and exploit their power. No doubt. But as for hard-wiring, I'm really not sure we even need to go as far as to explore that. It might be enough just to recognise that they have been raised within a different 'paradigm', and can't get out of it.

Hello Brian,

Thank you for the acknowledgement, I appreciate it.

I've had my share of abuse in the past, let's just keep it at that.
With troubles wisdom has grown, and I have more insight in life now than ever before.

About the differences in rationale: it has been scientifically proven that the brain grows new connections when you use certain parts of it. Kind of like exercising; you develop your muscles by using them.

In this context, it is only normal that a man's brain is further developed in the rationalizing part, and underdeveloped in the emotional part; a man often ignores emotions as much as possible, because they stand in the way of his goals (I know I do). Brain scans have proven that men mainly use one half of their brains very intensively when faced with an issue, while women activate most parts of their brains, but less intense.

From this, I do believe that our brains are quite different (generally speaking), and it puts quite an interesting perspective on the difference in behavior of the genders.

I could be wrong, of course, but until a better explanation comes along, this will do for now

As for our sex drives, it's definitely true that it is a weak spot. For mankind in general, I think it would be a good thing if the education system would teach young men on controlling their urges early on, or at least warn us for the risks to come. But that may be just expecting a bit too much at this point in time...

Jack

Hi,

Posted this in Brian's thread as well, but since it is applicable to this topic in particular, here's the link again :

http://www.girlschase.com/content/respect-relationship-where-it-comes-where-it-goes

Women never stop testing their man, and many a man fails those tests later in the relationship. As a result, she loses all respect she had for him, and with that the most important aspect that a man needs in a relationship. From there it goes downhill fast.

Why didn't they teach this in school?

Another interesting point is that women often assume lots of things about men ("he didn't give the kids milk because he was too lazy in front of the TV again"), and very often those assumptions are simply not true ("if I'd have given them milk this evening, we would not have any left for breakfast tomorrow, and I can not go to the store now since the baby is sleeping").

I think the same happens with those tests that women do. If the man fails a test, she assumes it was because he is weak/afraid/soft/lazy. As such, if she even asks him for a reason, it always comes out as an accusation; and he gets on the defensive because of the lack of respect, while he had a very valid reason to do what he did. And a new rift has been created in the relationship.

In hindsight, women are actually setting their relationships up for failure with their testing & checking, combined with their pre-accusatory assumptions.

So can someone please tell them to stop doing that?

We already have our hands full with life as it is...


Jack

Hello again,

Another topic I found interesting in the men-women dynamics.

If you look at the videos of Marc Rudov on youtube, he's got a point that women actually want more sex than men; that they are more sexually than men.

We men just have been cheated about girls/women all the time since childhood, to feminize us and keep us in giving mode.

You are NOT the one who needs her most, she's the one who has a BIGGER need for YOU.

Paints an interesting picture about the power dynamics in a relationship, doesn't it?

Jack

Hi guys,

Another update on this topic, this time about dominance.

I'm getting more and more convinced that what (most) women need, is a dominant partner.

And dominance is expressed as focusing on your own reality, instead of others' : you're totally focused on your own needs, and ignore those of other people.

Hence why women fall for bad boys : kind guys bend their behavior around the woman's needs, and thus lose the dominance asset, while the dominant guys don't give a toss about her; they're too busy with creating their own life.

I believe that the underlying reason why women like dominant men is that they are fascinated by this skill.

Why?

Because they do not have it, and would like to. As I said, it allows you to create the life you want; who wouldn't want that kind of skill?

However, most women can not close their minds from external influences; they are open spirits that suck up any emotion that comes their way. (remember: women love emotions, and go for it all the way)

The problem is that they have no control over it: anything that comes their way affects them, they're like sponges absorbing anything around them. But : they have not learned to shut the door when it goes into an unwanted direction. This makes them dependent on their environment, and they feel quite powerless in life, as they can not focus on their own needs most of the time.

Being dominant is actually about keeping the door closed all the time, and only opening it when you see the need for it. Most women would love to have this skill, hence the adoration for dominant men.

Also, someone with a closed door is more of a mystery, which is an important aspect of attraction.

Just some of my ideas, feel free to comment.


Jack

Hi guys,

I think I've figured out why my wife is the way she is.

I'm reading a book on a father's role in a daughter's life, his duties, and what a daughter needs from a father. Things like protection, guidance, tranquility, understanding, and an objective view on reality. In other words, a stable rock.

And then I realized : my wife did not have those things in her childhood.

As a child, she was under pressure to perform, in an extremely competitive educational system. No mercy was given to those who fell behind.
Emotions were considered weakness, and she was forced to tread in the system. No space and time was available for a growing spirit trying to explore her world.
The dominant ailing queen mother needed constant servitude, both from her and her father. Her father is a very supportive person, but he could not lead the way: the mother reserved that role for herself (in that city the women are notorious for "leading" the family).
And we've seen that fatherless families often lead to problematic adults, exactly because the things mentioned above are missing.
If the above things are missing in a girl's childhood, you end up with a woman who desperately searches for those things. And if she can not find it as an adult, she becomes very frustrated, and even more desperate...
It explains why my wife always mentions she never feels safe with me (because I did not know she needed protection, being the dominant one in the relationship).
It also explains why sometimes she expresses such a distorted view on reality : women often express disturbing views for emotional reasons, especially when there's no man around who negates them. The problem is that a child is not aware of this, and accepts mom's words as reality.
It also explains why she often frantically tries to get more done when there is less time left : she has been running in a rat race all her young life, and doing more in less time has become a goal of excellence and a habit. No one put her feet back on the ground to point out that there is a limit to how much a person can do while staying sane; and of course, that relaxing is the most important thing you can do for yourself, and that everyone just needs some time off every now and then.
It explains why she never feels understood : as a child, living in a very competitive and materialistic environment, (the child's) emotions were not taken into account; the child just had to suck it up (it's called "toughening up for life"). No understanding or explanation provided, just a lot of unanswered questions in the child's head, and the certainty that she just needs to accept it. Making her feel misunderstood, powerless and unable to take control of her life.
And to top it off, before her teen years, for some reason, her parents regarded the child's opinion always to be right. Which is a positive incentive for a person's self-esteem, but for a powerless child who is still learning about the world, it can quickly grow into despotism and, if confirmed, into dictatorial behavior. Which explains that part of her...
The fact that her mother died when my wife was a late teen, devastated her. As she had grown into a person completely dependent on the approval of the mother who was now gone, she fell into an emotional abyss, from which I think she still did not recover. Making her extremely clingy, but at the same time wanting to protect her weakness by not allowing men too close (the next point).
Concerning men, she saw that almost all men around her cheated on their wives (it's almost default practice in the city she comes from). Making her not trust men. When her father left a bit later for another woman, it just provided the final proof to her that all men run away with another woman at some point in time. Which is why I hear this accusation daily...

Darn...


It all fits ...


Need a cold beer & a dark room for a while ...


Jack

Well written but an unfixable situation. Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ZXjkhqIHM