Do you think that this is a disorder? or Something that toxic people know that they are doing?

If you're referring to a PDI then my belief is the following

They do know a lie is a lie, but they would rather lie than be truthful. They're hiding behind the lie because to them the lie is the lesser evil. The greater evel being to reveal or risk damaging the mask. The presavation of the mask and their altaego is too important to risk to the possible chance of damage in the truth being told. They'll defend that altaego vehemently.

Usually PDIs are a result of childhood trauma or abuse and the need to both protect their emotional (true) selves and "present/project" a perfict OK self, often within their own family or because of their own family.

This becomes instinctive and just happens without thought over time - if allowed to happen from childhood then it becomes their idea of "right" And they believe anybody who challanges this right is attacking their very (true) selves.

JMHO

Hi Gabe,

Here's my opinion :

Pathological lying is basically a child trying to keep up an image at all costs.

As children, we learned that lies will get us in trouble in the end. The cost of a lie can be high: you have to keep up the illusion you have created, or be branded a fake and unreliable person (which nobody wants to be around).

Some children missed this learning stage. Or some went through a traumatic event that took priority over this wisdom.

Arriving at adulthood, the basis for their inner values has been set, and does not change anymore voluntarily.

Whether a toxic person knows what he/she's doing, depends on the case.

I think most of them surely know; they just need to keep up the illusion, to avoid self-evaluation. Most of them are terrified for looking at themselves critically, in order to preserve some amount (illusion?) of self-worth.

It all boils down to being afraid of making mistakes, and losing (self-)respect as a consequence. They didn't learn or refused to accept that making mistakes is only human and natural (even necessary), and that it doesn't make you any less of a person. Hence all efforts go into painting a perfect picture.

Others might have an illusion of their past that distorts their reality view, and truly believe what they're projecting; that's psychiatrists' territory.

Just my 2 cents.



Jack

Thanks for the input, I'm just trying to figure out if is something that they use, to use people or that's just how they are.

I think it's a bit of both.

They've learned that this strategy works (or worked in the past), or as Jack said, they didn't learn that this strategy doesn't work (take your pick). Both ways - it's better to lie than be emotionally honest and therefore vulnerable and loose the "masks" face.

Then they "learn" the perceived value in lying as a tool - to get what they need. Challenge that lie, (that mask of perfection), even if you want them to have what they need (a solid good relationship) and it's rage time. Then their emotionally invested in defending the need to protect the true selves by the lie.

Think of it like this.

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP (known wisdom)but:-

We all sometimes leap before we look, to us it's human and easily resolved with a quick apology and amends being made. But to a PDI they always leap before they look. They have to in their minds, because it's a conditioned emotional self defence process, and, as such, is a valid process (who can deny self defence isn't valid and worth defending?)thing is it's INVALID in an adult or on this occasion or with you or I - we're not the source of their fear. But now it's too late. What I think happens is they vehemently defend the leap....not the process, the what not the why because unless we really dig we never see the why, and they can't ether all they know, is time to leap (I have to defend myself and this [lie] is how I'll do it).

Again JMHO