I have been divorced for more than a decade to a woman who fits most if not all of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_Personality_Inventory

A narcissistic and exploitative woman.Having most of the traits of NPD under the DSM-IV.

I noticed a few years ago that my son has low empathy and some Dark Triad features in his personality.
He is almost 18 years old.


Recently everything i do and say he ridicules and criticizes.
Thats how his mother acted shortly after we married before it got much,much worse.

There were times when i couldn't,or just didnt spend quality time with my son.
I was gone either out of state or out of town thought the recession.
I did have a little bit of a social life but not much of one after my divorce and now i regret even that.
There were times when i didnt have energy to spend much time doing things with him,sometimes for months at a time.I would at times come home from work and watch tv eat and go to bed.

But there were a lot of times we did go and do things together.Fishing,camping,hiking,biking, trips to the beach,church,trips out of state and out of town.
When he was little sometimes i would carry him in my arms for hours at a time or on my shoulders.

I blame myself.
I should have left his mother before she got pregnant.(i almost did)
If i had had the child support enforced perhaps i would not have had to leave him with his mother during the recession.
I should have taken better care of my self to ensure that i always had energy to do things and spend quality time with him.

I will be forever wounded that my son will not and cannot return the love i have for him. :(

I can't begin to tell you how reading your post made me feel. I'm in the same situation. Sounds a lot like what I've been through. Mine won't even talk to me. I feel like I was the one who put "all in" and in the end got left with crap. The narc I was married to made existing almost impossible and I was unable to all I wanted with my son. It sucks.

Guys,

I know how you feel, it would devastate me too if I would be in your situation.

But the important part is that you realize that you have made a mistake, and you can start from there.

Mistakes are what you learn from, and you guys are seeing clearly now where you messed up, and how you could have done a better job.

We can not change the past, but we can take responsibility for our past actions. I bet a big part of your kid's refusal is because they have the image of a man who never acknowledges making mistakes, while in their eyes he has clearly made them. What they remember is a man arguing with mom, who never admitted that he had made a mistake. (as a side note: because she drove you nuts at the time, and it is perfectly normal to never give in to someone trying to push you over the edge).

Or a distant person who was never there when they needed to...

Those are the images they have of their father.

And you have the opportunity to change that image.

Come clean with them, admit you made mistakes, and you'll see that they'll start changing their behavior towards you. There will be initial resistance because of pent up frustration, but that is to be expected. It will fade after some time, and out will come a fresh new relationship.

Remember: a son wants nothing more than a dad to show him the way in life. You might have failed in the beginning part, but there is still an entire lifetime to make up for it. We all make mistakes, but the knowledge that comes out of those mistakes is the basis for future successes.

So be at peace, there's more than enough time left to repair the relationship.

Tell them what you've told us here, it's probably just what they are waiting for...



Jack

Jack

my son can remember his mother being arrested for domestic violence.

my son can remember his mother yelling and screaming and being verbally abusive.

And she continues to be so when ever and how ever it suits her because its in her nature to be so.

my son has also been the target of his mothers abusiveness,especially in the time after the divorce more than a decade ago.

my son can remember his mother also being arrested for domestic violence against the man who married her after our divorce .

a man BTW who left her and subsequently had a psychotic episode and had to be confined to a state institution.

You dont know my situation.you dont know me.you dont know the effort i put into being a good father.you dont know about the things i did with and time i spent with my son.

You dont know that i have been divorced since my son was 3 years old.

You dont know about the depression and suicidal ideation that i suffered with as a result of the abuse i went thru as a result of being married to and living with an abusive narcissist woman.

You apparently dont know that i knew nothing about what a narcissist is or even that there was such a thing until i came here a few years ago looking for help after i went thru another abusive relationship .

You apparently dont know that factors that cause Narcissism and Narcissistic Personality Disorder can be genetically passed onto a child from a parent.That a person can be genetically predisposed to developing NPD.

You are apparently unaware that Cluster B Personality disorders are treatable but incurable .

FYI empathy and the ability to empathize or lack thereof have much to do with arrangements of neurons in the brain .

You Jack should know that IF your childs mother is a narcissist or has some other abusive Cluster B Personality Disorder ,that your child also has a genetic predisposition to inheriting said condition especially if she is abused by her mother and witnesses you also being abused ,verbally or otherwise .You cannot always be there to protect to protect your child at every moment that she will be in contact with her mother

So you jack have a responsibility and a moral and possibly legal obligation to document and record your wifes abusive behavior and seek legal counsel to extricate yourself and your daughter from that abusive situation.

Thees are things that i didnt know and was too naive to even consider about when i filed for divorce many years ago.

Marrying an abusive narcissistic woman is a mistake.Staying married to such a woman is another mistake.Having children with such a woman is another mistake.Subjecting a child to such a woman is another mistake.Not doing everything you legally can to limit your childs exposure to such an abusive woman is another mistake.Not taking precautions ,having in mind how narcissism can be passed on from parent to child is another mistake.

And if you are just a feminist studies major just posting here in a mens group to to disseminate a feminist a viewpoint for extra credit in your feminist studies class please just go away.

Wow.

Quite a situation you went through, didn't mean to offend you.

I agree, I didn't know you or your situation well enough to provide the best advice. Was trying to give a lead, to provide some hope for someone who can use some.

I feel for you, man; we all do here.

Thank you for the precautionary advice, I'll take it to heart.

And don't worry, the day I will think about becoming a feminist major, is the day that I have gone bananas.



Jack

The world breaks everyone ... those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.

ERNEST HEMINGWAY

Sticking it out for the benefit of your kids is a lost cause that helps no one with the possible exception of the abused's own ego. You owe your kids the best most stable environment you can provide. That can never be done with crazy crow flapping around the house pecking at all that is good. Otherwise you keep them in a world where good and bad changes in an instant. Ultimately the kids find that what is good is what benefits me. Take them and go....fight the good fight.....they need consistency not Sharknado. You are trying to salvage self esteem in a mental Auschwitz. And for God's sake do not rub her feet!

When you appease the dragon you are hoping to be eaten last.

What you DO NOT WANT is for your child....20 years from now....to look you in the eye and ask...."Dad, why didn't you help me?"

Hello Chump,

I appreciate your concerns; however, I'm not planning to be broken anytime soon.

My situation is becoming quite different and improving steadily; she's losing her "control" over the relationship, and I'm gaining every single day.

The crow gets a very straightforward discussion if it dares to come down; it clearly starts to lose interest in pecking, from sheer lack of arguments. Instead, it starts to doubt what a crow should be doing in fact.

And the dragon's lair has been conquered by undersigned, the previous owner can take a hike if he doesn't like it.

Kids are taken care of, I'm behind them whenever they get affected; they are opening up more every day, and start to enjoy life like kids should. It's amazing how the right words at the right time can totally turn a bad event for the better.

As for your plea : the foot rub has been replaced with sex in the mean time, on my order & command.

So, in all, I appreciate your concerns, but I think others might need them a bit more


Jack

But...whatever helps you sleep at night brother.

Thank you for the warning, Chump. Good to know someone cares.

I'm staying on my toes, but I've also learned a lot from the last dozen or so explosions. I'm getting better at controlling even her worst temper, and making it clear to her that she handles things totally in the wrong way; every time the cross-hair has been turning a bit more towards her.

One time she even had to apologize to a teacher on the phone big time, saying that "her impulsiveness is her big character flaw, and that she needs to work on herself". All while I was sitting next to her. So something has been seeping through...

For me, the fog's about gone, and she's almost an open book now. The worst rages are created by her hormones, so every month has been party time. Only this month the party has been cancelled, and the days have passed quietly. Interestingly because I've learned what she needs at that time, and said the right words (note to all : some women would rather die instead of telling you what they need early on).

Losing my own fears and learning to control myself has helped me tremendously.

And for the practical aspects : our current apartment is on my name only; she has no income, so the kids would be assigned to me anyway; if she misbehaves, she knows where she can go.

My own evaluation of my situation is that my wife is not as extreme as what most of you have to deal with, and I feel a bit fortunate for that. She's basically a small girl in an adult body, who needs a good teacher. She does become a loudmouth as she's frustrated, but in essence that just comes down to a desperate call for empathy.
She does not carry baggage from previous relationships, and that makes a big difference : she did not get a chance to develop the habit of messing up her liaisons in a worse way each single time; thus confirming that relationships (men) are crap to start with. She does have baggage from her upbringing and the environment that she grew up in, but she starts to realize that some of her assumptions might be plain wrong.

For the rest, my father is 84, my brother lives 1300 miles from here, as does my best friend. I'm pretty much covered on that side


But let's get back on topic, this is Mark's thread after all.


Jack