Ann, Obviously you are a well spoken woman. And, I and others can appreciate your plite. However, this forum is very clear and what it intends to be.

Quote you

"Hi,

I feel like I'm trespassing in this site. But I hope you'll let me post here sometimes."

I first saw this post and thought. Sure, why not? Then I looked down the board and you have posted in many, many threads.

If you want to post a little of your perspective and keep the focus and discussion on what the board is meant to be I think that is fine. An example, if you had a brother that was a victim of a narc, or maybe your father was a victim of your mother's narc tendencies. etc...

However, you do not seem to be doing this. You seem to have a problem with other people's boundaries. To me you have violated this forum. It is unfortunate as I believe you are sincere.

So, yes I feel like you have trespassed not just a little, but a lot.

Now sactown and his buddy can rag on me for stating my legitimate opinion.

A.

Awakened- hi mate!

No ragging from me because this time, I feel that in a small way your right to say what you said.

I'll explane my thinking for you and for Ann,

This IS a site for men and I've said that, and i think it should be for kept for men. Also, no one here, has the insight, knowledge, nor can really give the gender specirfic support Ann really needs IMHO, I too noticed the number of postings. So Ann lets just keep it to guesting and occasional postings. (quite how we judge that is beyond me)

But Ann is a human in pain, and I can't or won't turn her away. So I welcome her, I was lost for years with no support anywhere, I was too crushed to seek advice from the Internet, I would have saught help anywhere and I found my way here and a few other sites by fumbling around the Internet after a friend (femail) pointed me at "when love is a four letter word"

So Ann, some sites for you (google is your friend)

Out of the fog. Really good gender neutral site and forums.

When love a a four letter word, one page of a really good site find your way to the index

Try also googling repairing the wounded child, it explanes the inner child you've been deeling with (well it does for the female narc)

I'm sure others will give some more sites as well.


Hope this made sense.

Interesting thread and wanted to add these two emails I have recently received:

Here's the deal. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Some of these people that come here are trolls, some are hacks and I believe some might even be paid.

It's obvious that if "ann" is sincere (which I am starting to doubt) she would be on a forum more suited to women. But no, she's here. I find it odd that the last week or two have been extemely smooth and all members have gotten along well and have not tried to change the climate of the board...i.e. being gay, or transgender, or a woman, etc....

"ann" seems to be fisching for personal info as well.

Again, if someone comes to the board and claims to be other than what James has set out it's a red flag.

Some of us here (not me) need to stop being duped. Obviously "new me", "james blogger" and myself have not been by this one.

So, unless you stay on topic "ann" which I doubt you will, buzz off.

Think about it guys.......places like this are a veritable supermarket of narcissistic supply. A source of "pretrained" men.

Awakened,

I agree with you that from time to time we do get people who are all of the above. I witness this in many other types of forums so had to learn to do deal with them. One way is too not deal with them insomuch it’s better just not to response to them in anyway. Like fishing (which is what they do) if the lake is dry these fishermen/fisher ladies will simply go elsewhere to fish. If a person is dysfunctional and toxic, the worse thing to do to them is being ignored, it really p@sses them off!

I know James. But as you are aware, in the past a couple of members cater to their every whim. I hope this one will drop off soon.

Lets not get all paranoid gents. And let us show some compassion and growth. Actually I think ANN the gal is for real....just spun out from a recent NARC ordeal. I do overall agree and have experienced that one of my main problems on other sites (nameless for now but wow!) has been the infiltration of "supposed mens" forums by crazy women. Shoot they were even being annointed as moderaters on those sites. It was truly wierd. I was actually banned by one group for "questioning" this crazy making policy. But hey, that particular Mens site was founded and controled by a woman, so what else should I expect in that bizaar scenario. I think Ann has shown a good degree of respect and disclosure, but, as a male in recovery I would suggest she find a site that is either gender specific or an open mixed gender forum. The internet site LOVE FRAUD would be a good start for an individual in Ann's situation. There are plenty more of them out there. And also many good men in the world to catch who are either not in relationship recovery or simply without this horrid life experience. Good luck Ann...we do understand and truly get your plight...but...we don't serve coffee.

I think I know the site. Was very divisive.

Wow.

Now, I really feel abused. Please delete all of my posts as well as this thread. I didn't expect my name and info to be put out there like that. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I won't post here again. Thank you

----

Look I'm going to add something.

This took me by surprise.

I know this site has a huge disclaimer on the top that says for heterosexual men, and I should have taken the appearance of no other female posters here as a sign. But I didn't. Probably should have. I didn't think this site was like a Elks club meeting from the 1960's. Absolutely positively no women allowed.

If you read I put in my message to James that I had been posting on another site for mid life crisis. That was when I was trying to figure out what as going on with my husband at the time of 'bomb drop' and beyond, which is the terminology we use over there. That site 'the heros spouse' is by a woman, but we have a few male posters and it has never been a problem. My handle over there is AnnStacy, and I have been on that site for months.

I meant it when I said that James videos helped me. I was surprised that he posted those messages here to mock me or something. Don't be paranoid. I just found your forum a few days ago and don't know what you've gone through on the boards before.

Believe it or not, if more women that truly had NPD spouses or boyfriends posted here you wouldn't feel like it was only a male problem only. Im not here to belittle your experiences, but for you to think that I would make up all of the details in my post to "trap" a stranger....you're wrong. I meant every word I typed. I guess I thought that people that had been through what I have would be more sensitive. But it seems like the one gender only atmosphere here has a created a space where it's o.k to think that all women are the enemy, and psycho. I posted last night to respond to a lot of posts that didn't have responses. Which I thought was a nice thing to do.

I wouldn't have time to do that everyday, but last night reading and responding was really helping me and I was enjoying it so I did.

I won't again. That's fine. Please don't be paranoid and bitter. I hope your experiences haven't turned you into thinking all women are crazy, and narcs and mean, and honestly if there were more on this board, you wouldn't be able to feel this way.

I liked James' videos because it seemed like he was rare. A voice for traditional, Christian male, values. I didn't expect to be regarded as the enemy or a possible fraud for just being here.

And at that. I'll leave you to your cigars, gentlemen.

Actually I for one do not consider myself "pre trained" but rather actually "innoculated". I am really working on keeping an open mind after this horror. I realize most everybody in this world is f**ked up to a degree, some just more so than others. PDs especially so. As I now wander in the world I keep an eye peeled for the "Red Flags" but at the same time I try to establish a balance in these matters.Overall in the big picture I do believe in the long run the BPD experience has left me with a "gift" as it were. I am sharper, I am wiser, I am experienced and perhaps slightly scarred emotionally, but overall I can say, "been there, done that". My internal Don Juan has become stronger for it. My confidence is raised as is also my conscience. I survived! You guys know that even though we permitted these PD women to spin our heads...you wouldn't trade your future for theirs.....would ya?

Pre-trained is a stage in recovery. I have gone feral a bit at this point. I have no problem looking trouble in the eye and saying "You're mental, get away from me" these days. In other words I don't seek solace in some place warm and soft now. Recovery is a bit like a pendulum......back and forth until it settles at center. Fresh out most of us are conditioned or as I put it "pre-trained".


I am past the Don Quixote phase.....

Don Quixote as in false white knight. We all played Don Quixote.

" She wanted, with her fickleness, to make my destruction constant; I want, by trying to destroy myself, to satisfy her desire.” ― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote"

Chump my good friend! FERAL...Likin dat concept, you lone wolf you. . No Don Quixote here...I said "Don Juan". I'm gonna polish my suave inna feral way.[[ ]

I was clarifying it as you typed birdboy! Google "MGTOW" and let me know what you think. MGTOW.COM

I added to my post above ... Wise guy.

Not all women are narcs and out to get you men. I can't believe this.

I watched the videos, heard gender neutral speech and learned something. Came here, found James' email because he has a link under each of his posts where everyone else' says email, went to the website, found his email, wrote to thank him and shared some more info, thinking that it was like RCR, the founder over at the other site.


And....no. Not at all. Finding that email on his website did not take Tom Cruise Mission Impossible style tactics.

Guess who I am?

Answer: a woman who has lived with a person I believe to have NPD, and am now am happy to have the info that I have that I learned. Someone who enjoyed posting, but now won't here anymore. And who has managed to have a sense of humor and keep my wits through the ordeal. Violin music would not be appropriate here as I exit. How about something more upbeat? A polka perhaps?

Besides Birdboy, isn't Gaslighting when someone makes you feel as if what you've experienced didn't happen or has been greatly exaggerated in some way? How did I gaslight anyone? Know what these terms mean before you start trying to make 'case' against someone.

You try checking a site on your second day there reading and find a thread dedicated to your possibly being a fraud and see if your first response doesn't come off sounding "petulant".
God Bless you guys,

Ann

Quote you. again.

Fine.

I get it. I'm sorry you guys feel so marginalized. I'm being sincere here, and I'm sure it happens in even more ways than I'm currently aware of, but I think masculinity is under attack, and trust me, I think American women would be a lot better off if this wasn't the case. If the media wasn't twisting things.

I guess it should have been obvious. But maybe add in parenthesis at the top of the page: 'We please ask that you respect that this forum is for men only. Thank You'. Or something like that.

I heard in so many of James' videos that the content could be applied to women as well by just imagining a switching of the genders, and in some he repeated that they were gender neutral, that I guess it didn't sink it that it did not apply to the boards, or it was a strict recommendation that board be for males only.

If you post that somewhere where it can be seen, you'll probably have less women wandering in occasionally.

No hard feelings.

God Bless,

Healing and Happiness to all

Gaslight??? Thanx for your kind words Ann...God Bless. O.K. Boys...strike up a polka for the lady...

Thank God we actually have men on here instead of sacktown and his buddy.

Some of it is a bit radical for me too but it is a step towards assuring equal options. That site is a little strong I think but they do include "marrying your high school sweetheart and having three kids". Other sites present it more as men growing a backbone again.

ann
there are TONS of places and resources for women who suffer abuse.
the US. gvt spends HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars EVERY YEAR in its Violence Against Women Act.



and 0 (ZERO) for abused men!!!!

an abused woman(or any woman) can go to a domestic violence shelter(my XW hit her last husband,got out of jail and went to one)

SO IF YOU WANT HELP FOR YOURSELF GO FIND IT!!!!

13 yr old BOYS are not allowed in domestic violence shelters btw

abused men are referred to a homeless shelters

Earl Silverman committed suicide IN PROTEST after YEARS of trying to procure funding for a shelter for men.

Erin Pizzey received death threats ,bomb threats and her dog was murdered because she was trying to start shelters for men and stating that there is a need for shelters for men.(that women can be abusers too)

if you are a troll you CAN be blocked and banned(happened before)

this is not a dating site to find an abused man


IF you really care about abused men find out what an MRA is and become one,become a member of the MHRM/MRM

if not GO THE FLUCK ON because most of this board leans toward MGTOW

WTF!!!! This is not a dating site??? Well shucks...

You know Marc. I was going to just leave you guys alone...because this really threw me. But I hear a lot of pain in your post. So....Despite this being unexpected and kind of weird from me, reading the types of responses that are here let me say this:

I am honestly, really sorry you were abused.

I know men are abused, and I think it is terrible. Men bear a terrible burden because upon being abused, they are usually ridiculed and not given support.

I think that needs to change.

There should be shelters for men who have been abused. It is wrong to punish a man who has been the victim of a female further by directing him to a homeless shelter. To hear that sickens me. And I am sorry.

Because there are really not the advantages in society for men like there were at one time. And though some things have improved for women, it should not have had to been at the expense of men, or men should not have to be punished in order to prove some sort of point to the women who went without in the past.

Im really really sorry. I hear it in my head as I read what you've written. And my face actually felt hot with shame...because even though its not my fault. I didn't realise that men were either not welcome on women's abuse supports sites, or would have faced persecution there, although I can imagine some women there may have used the presence of a man as a target to vent frustration, hurt and abuse and level some "payback"

I am really sorry you were abused and you did not deserve that.

I came here to meet nice people that were, hopefully, not narcs. Because as the purpose of the site states it is for victims of narc abuse. I am one. I thought it would be a great place to meet someone who is a sensitive person like myself. I think I have met some of these people, and Im sure all of you on the board are that way. So I accomplished my goal. I even accomplished my goal of trying to offer support through responding to posts and giving feedback and positive support through that feedback.

I was not verbally abusive to anyone. I did not try to blame or hurt anyone. And if I came across someone in the area who wanted to talk and get coffee sometime, share stories, give mutual support, and we clicked- great. If we didn't click, at least we could still supprt each other and have another supportive, kind person in our lives that understood what we were going through.

I understand that this is not a dating site. However, other sites do have meet ups and other people do post in other sites saying if anyone is in the area they're available to talk and meet up. I am referring to the one other site I am on, and I do have one on one email relationships (because no one has been in my area so far that I've connected with) with other women. So.... if that was a trigger for you, or caused you distress in some way, please know that was not my intention.

All my words can be taken at face value. There is no hidden meaning.

I respect that this board is for men only.
Do I understand that 100%- no. But I will respect it.

There are a lot of women, if they were welcome here, are nice, kind and would be very interested in giving support, understanding, and positive feedback to the heterosexual men here that have been victims of abuse. The female perspective in some cases, could also be beneficial if there was some aspect to a situation that wasn't understood and that woman could relate.

Again, I think I may have served as a lightening rod for past hurt. And I can understand that. I was surprised. But I understand that.

and really do only wish all of you the very best and healing and happiness.

I am sorry society has turned in this way, and that there are a lack of resources. I am also very glad that this site and the videos here exist.

I just want you to know though. All women are not bad. And a great many, if allowed here, would be more than willing to offer positive support to all of you while respecting that this site's focus is Men.

God Bless all of you and Stay positive
Have a great day today,
Ann

Dear Gawd Almighty...this is starting to feel like a love bomb...and I'm falling for it...I guess ya aint outta the woods till ya see daylight. P.S. Now that I think about it...with all this talk about coffee...we could use a waitress around here. ...or a nurse in nylons...O.K. Bird...get a grip. SLAP! SLAP!

Gosh folks I realize this not a dating site too-but I still welcome her -looking for a date or not. I pretty convinced she is not here poaching NS as somebody suggested. Friend or foe seems to be the question some have asked. This is the Internet we have chosen to trust that we are all real here-so I trust Ann even though her intro. Into our little smoky back room was unusual (looking to meet a decent Christian man etc.). My 2 cents only--totally accept and understand the opinions of my struggling brothers here (we can agree not to agree when it comes to girls in the club) as we communicate and fight the good fight together.

I love and respect women......call it a fault. Women having a full on presence in a "men's" forum changes the dynamic complely......and not for the good. It muffles, constricts, and eliminates a man's opportunity to vent because it offends women when told in a primal mode. I was taken to task by some of the men, most of the women, and the woman site founder of a major men's site for calling the ex a hoor to her face. Because that word was offensive to women. Nevermind the fact that she showed up after daylight waving a new fur coat she got from a 76 yo banker in my face. Only name I ever called her and after 3 years of being called every name in the book during her rages. It was my freedom cry and should have been celebrated rather than reviled. I finally enforced a boundary. I was chewed a new one for being "angry". Anger is healthy and healing as long as it does not spill over to rage. Rage is what I always got from the ex crazy.

There are many places for women victims online. I respect Ann and her experience . Just a hint for you.......if you ever get shunted to a homeless shelter when the crazy tosses you out do not show up in a car. They will not let you in.

SUPPORT FOR HETEROSEXUAL MEN! There is no room to disagree. This is a mens site. Now I get the fact that Ann is very charming and absolutly convincing, but, I personally have been to and became a member of "for men" sites that "permitted and welcomed" women to post and become "members", even "moderaters" for cryin out loud. End result...FRICKEN CHAOS! NUTZOVILLE and no healing. If this was not a mens site ONLY I would not feel safe to be an "unadulterated" man amoungst my peers and would not have even joined this site in the first place. I did check it out before I joined. This site was also reccomended as male "safe". I will also say it is an added relief there are no "moderators" on this site short of the original man who created this "refuge" for us as "moderators" just lead to power plays and censorship struggles and issues related to personalities before and above principles. Just sayin... burp! P.S. Chump knows of where he speaks...I know...believe me. It was nightmarish and without a shred of humor.

Thank you.

Now I'm not quite sure what to do.

At first, after this thread got started I thought I'd leave it alone completely.

Then I checked this post again, and felt I had to respond, so I did.

Then that post moved me, so I wrote my last post. So, hmmmm.....

I guess. Since I respect you guys, and I think you know now more of what I'm about.....

If I get a vote. ( I know, I know I don't ....it's o.k though :) ). I guess.... I would suggest, maybe making an addendum to forum rules. Stating somewhere that if a woman posts she can't be critical of someone sharing their experience. That criticizing someone sharing their experience (I.e- criticizing the 'who're' incident) will get you banned from the boards. That the men here are free to express their stories without feeling the need to censor themselves in any way, and that criticism of sharing their true experiences will not be tolerated and will get you banned.

And so that this site is never over run, maybe saying that only men can begin threads, and that women are allowed to respond inside of those threads.

And that women are allowed one general constant thread, where they can post to ask questions of the men and share, and the men can check that thread if they want to see what questions stories the women have posted and see what they are talking about and respond if they would like. It would only be allowed under that one thread so it wouldn't interrupt or overwhelm the current set up of the board.

Just a suggestion. To clearly state and re-work the board so women are somewhat allowed under certain guidelines. Idk. Just a suggestion.

Be Strong you guys,
We're going to be o.k,

Hugs to all ( this is said at the other site too. It is not a come on :) )
Ann


------- (Added to respond: I wasn't aware that there wasn't a moderator.)

Also, I'm sorry that happened to you Chump. That is nuts. I hate that that even happened to you in the first place. I hate that people will use their hurt to do cruel things to other people. When the person you loved and probably still do, will do something so cruel to you. Like, where's the shred of compassion and common decency. Like, why aren't there basic rules people just follow. There should be some kind of safety net, like if you're married or in a committed relationship, even if you're upset and that person, there are just some lines you won't cross...some things you won't do. I'm really sorry that happened to you w/ the car and the homeless shelter. I hope that ultimately worked out ok and w/ some kind of blessing in disguise because som of those places have dangerous people and bed bugs.

Jeeze Ann...cut it loose. Go to a mixed site. Here...I'll be a gentleman and hold the door open for you.

On the contrary Bird! There is plenty of room to disagree! You assume that men can only draw support from men. The intention the site is clear-nonetheless nowhere does it say only men are welcome to post-if I'm wrong somebody show me. It seems that site advertising is not solely directed to men and James' videos etc. specifically state the information can be valuableto to both sexes. I found the site through the videos and since I am a guy I liked that it was geared to men but certainly didn't expect that we would not encounter the occasional female interloper. Support is support and NPDs and their victims are represented in both sexes-that is what cannot be disputed. This is notwithstanding that there are way fewer sites geared to men-and male posters are all over those female run sites anyway. The site is not closed to woman or at least it does not so state.

Well taken What...lets let James decide.

Thank you Bird...You have my respect sir-

What...everything you have said is legit. This has been a real eye opening experience for us all. Men and women. I do indeed love and cherish woemen...perhaps to a fault. I am no misogynist. I do indeed hope Ann will find a place to find the healing we all need.

We are all here because we love woman--what I like about all I've learned from the videos and you guys is That i feel like I have been given a pair of free night vision goggles and I will be forever able to see a narc coming. We own the night bro.!

I'll take my chances, posting a reply again.

But one thing that keeps getting repeated, is that it's hoped I find a place to get the healing I need.

And what I think of when I read that, and haven't said here yet is:

I actually feel like I am being healed when I'm helping someone else.

Which is (co-dependent issues?) one of the reasons I am here. And why I attract Narcs, and felt like this would be a good place to be to make sure I was able to avoid that.

Not to be all open heart and sappy. But has anyone ever seen that movie 'Magnolia?'. I saw it I think in the early 2000s or late 90s. It was horribly disturbing, scary, and crude, and kind of offensive at parts IMO. But even though I'll probably never sit through it again, one of the most beautiful scenes I'd ever seen in a movie was one of the last frames.

In it. William H. Macy sits crying to another character at the counter at a restaurant. And he says "I have so much love to give. I have so much love to give. And I don't know where to put it.". I feel that way. And Narcs always seem to get there first.

I've learned never to expect much, because that's what you get from Narcs. But I decided. That I want to put my love in a better place. I want to be helpful to people that really deserve it. People like myself. People who don't want to hurt, or take unfairly from other people, lie to them or anything like that.

So, that's what I'm doing here. And helping people does make me feel good. Helping people that can appreciate it, feels much better than doing nice things for my husband, missing one thing, or having a boundary, and then getting verbally abused and sworn at for it. Or doing things for him and then being disrespected.

Put on the goggles Ann-)

Here is the key to recovery from crazy. A modification of the AA serenity prayer.

" God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know it's me."

And

“Unless we are willing to escape into sentimentality or fantasy, often the best we can do with catastrophes, even our own, is to find out exactly what happened and restore some of the missing parts.” ― Norman Maclean, Young Men and Fire

And

“Yet even in the loneliness of the canyon I knew there were others like me who had brothers they did not understand but wanted to help. We are probably those referred to as "our brother's keepers," possessed of one of the oldest and possible one of the most futile and certainly one of the most haunting instincts. It will not let us go.” ― Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It and Other Stories

Ann,

I'm going to add my last words on this (keep the flames down). We made you welcome her because we know your pain (if you are being honest), There is doubt to that honesty because you crossed the line on the postings you made and I’m sorry but our collective experience here Doubt = red flag = TPD. I agreed in a small way with Awakened (politely) that this possibly wasn’t the best environment for your needs. I even offered better gender neutral sites. What I didn’t expect was your reaction (as opposed to a response) it was Déjà vu for me and screamed my TPD. I have become skilled at spotting signs and listed those I saw.

I’m genuinely sorry I hit a nerve, and if I bit, and made a mistake about you, but our joint experiences here do make for mild (and not so mild) paranoia. You’re a grown woman and smart, so I’m sure you’ll access the Adult reasoning side of yourself and understand what I’m saying and why I say it.

The internet is a free place, and there is nothing to stop you visiting any site and reading the forums. But as has been pointed out by many here, this isn’t the right place and overstepping the mark is something we won’t tolerate - there are hurt and damaged men here, and we need the freedome to say what we please, something we've not had with our TPDs. We are healing, some of us are further along and quick to impose boundaries (some of us more abruptly than others). But you crossed the boundaries and that’s why some of us here said what we said.

Women have a sisterhood – we here are a “a Band of Brothers”(check out the HBO series to see how and why that works) – Awakened, James others and myself were/are protecting that.

Wow-great reads to start the day (abeautiful one-although it will be a scorcher here in the desert)--thanks for that you guys -this will help me today-Cheers!

As has been pointed out, there are myriad sites on this topic either for both genders or for women(with the preponderance being for women).
The site is clearly marked as being devoted to men.
Ann's initial overture includes and invitation to meet , in person, and is extended to men who are complete strangers. And, it is unclear whether she is still married,, yet seeking this date.
All these things are very strange and seem like the types of red flags we are tlking about which warn us to avoid a person.
We see a disregard of boundaries, a way too soon invitation to meet and converse in person, and the possibility of infidelity if she is till married.
I could not imagine myself venturing inot a site devoted to the other gender and looking to meet a woman in person. Something is really off here.

I believe the situation with Ann has become moot. She has been given her issue of compassion and directions. She has been shown the door. Let us not divert our attentions. We have important work to do. Let us hope for the best for her and move on in peace. Whadda say?

Very wise-No need to get off topic.